Sammy

AB Habman · Guru

Sammy

ray · Senior Member

I agree Ab, I felt sorry for Perez when I saw him down on the fourth line, I felt Perez was one of our best players day in day out without the numbers, but that was a matter of time until they started to come.

macneil · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

The squeeky wheel got the grease. Frankly he should of been on the fourth line. Perez who has been working constantly since day one didn't deserve the brunt of the Sammy whinning.

he shouldnt have been put on the 4th line to begin with , atleast not at the expense of lats .

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

I feel bad for him too, but it is about fit. Lats is (or should be) a finisher, whereas Perezhogin is a puck carrier. Samsonov is also a puck carrier. The second line needed someone to stand in front of the net, and that is a job Lats can do better than Perezhogin.

If we had to have one on the team, Perez would be my guy, but unfortunately for him we have an abundance of good puck carriers right now.

Andy · Veteran Member

Makes sense to me. Put a proven NHLer on the 4th line and junior player on the 2nd line. With these deceisions it makes look like an NHL coach job is like playing a video game. Did Carbo hit the auto line in that decesion. Samsonov at this point in his carrer has alot more talent then Latendresse. For all the other posters that threw the kovalev stats in my face but failed to come back with playoff stats. Compare the stats between Latendresse and Samsonov, its a no brainer. Ask Edmonton who they would want Sammy ( which they could not match montreal's offer especially when they did not know what was happening to Pronger) or Latendresse.

Not too many juniors crack this league and Latendresse should of been one that was either a 4th liner or back in junior. I think the Carbo let him make the team so the Montreal media would not get on his case. Sounds dumb I know, but so does putting Latendresse on the second line. Heck I think Perozoghin should of got to line two before Latendresse.

I don't think he would of made the team of Juilen was the coach. Not saying I don't like Carbo but I don't like that decesion.

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

Andy wrote:

Makes sense to me. Put a proven NHLer on the 4th line and junior player on the 2nd line. With these deceisions it makes look like an NHL coach job is like playing a video game. Did Carbo hit the auto line in that decesion. Samsonov at this point in his carrer has alot more talent then Latendresse. For all the other posters that threw the kovalev stats in my face but failed to come back with playoff stats. Compare the stats between Latendresse and Samsonov, its a no brainer. Ask Edmonton who they would want Sammy ( which they could not match montreal's offer especially when they did not know what was happening to Pronger) or Latendresse.

Not too many juniors crack this league and Latendresse should of been one that was either a 4th liner or back in junior. I think the Carbo let him make the team so the Montreal media would not get on his case. Sounds dumb I know, but so does putting Latendresse on the second line. Heck I think Perozoghin should of got to line two before Latendresse.

I don't think he would of made the team of Juilen was the coach. Not saying I don't like Carbo but I don't like that decesion.

So, your theory is that no rookie should ever be let on to a higher line than a proven veteran? How about not trying to mix up the lines when you obviously have ones that aren't working? Just because Samsonov has more points than Latendresse he should stay on the second line even though we are obviously wasting his talents there?

Also, Samsonov was on the 3rd line in the game, not the 4th.

When it comes to Perezhogin or Latendresse, why put Perezhogin there if Lats' skill set fits the line better. And I don't think anyone will argue when I say that line needs someone in front of the net who can finish off Kovalev's pretty dish passes and not someone who carries the puck really well.

As for other posters "failing" to come back with playoff stats, why is it other posters duty to do that? If you want to make an argument and need stats to back it up, find your own! Also, since we are in the regular season right now, why not look at regular season stats?

Julien is not the coach, but if he was, who is to say Lats would not have made it? He nearly made it last year as an 18 year old. The guys impressed twice in the preseasons and fills a role that no one else on the team can. He is a power forward. I'm not saying he will tear the league up on that second line, but I certainly agree with giving him a chance. The line we had in place was not working, despite the great and undeniable skill of the players on it.

AB Habman · Guru

Traveling Hab wrote:

Andy wrote:

Makes sense to me. Put a proven NHLer on the 4th line and junior player on the 2nd line. With these deceisions it makes look like an NHL coach job is like playing a video game. Did Carbo hit the auto line in that decesion. Samsonov at this point in his carrer has alot more talent then Latendresse. For all the other posters that threw the kovalev stats in my face but failed to come back with playoff stats. Compare the stats between Latendresse and Samsonov, its a no brainer. Ask Edmonton who they would want Sammy ( which they could not match montreal's offer especially when they did not know what was happening to Pronger) or Latendresse.

Not too many juniors crack this league and Latendresse should of been one that was either a 4th liner or back in junior. I think the Carbo let him make the team so the Montreal media would not get on his case. Sounds dumb I know, but so does putting Latendresse on the second line. Heck I think Perozoghin should of got to line two before Latendresse.

I don't think he would of made the team of Juilen was the coach. Not saying I don't like Carbo but I don't like that decesion.

So, your theory is that no rookie should ever be let on to a higher line than a proven veteran? How about not trying to mix up the lines when you obviously have ones that aren't working? Just because Samsonov has more points than Latendresse he should stay on the second line even though we are obviously wasting his talents there?

Also, Samsonov was on the 3rd line in the game, not the 4th.

When it comes to Perezhogin or Latendresse, why put Perezhogin there if Lats' skill set fits the line better. And I don't think anyone will argue when I say that line needs someone in front of the net who can finish off Kovalev's pretty dish passes and not someone who carries the puck really well.

As for other posters "failing" to come back with playoff stats, why is it other posters duty to do that? If you want to make an argument and need stats to back it up, find your own! Also, since we are in the regular season right now, why not look at regular season stats?

Julien is not the coach, but if he was, who is to say Lats would not have made it? He nearly made it last year as an 18 year old. The guys impressed twice in the preseasons and fills a role that no one else on the team can. He is a power forward. I'm not saying he will tear the league up on that second line, but I certainly agree with giving him a chance. The line we had in place was not working, despite the great and undeniable skill of the players on it.

I agree!

Also think that Lats brings more to line two than Perez or Sammy. That line needs a big winger to bump, grind and park his butt in the crease. Lats provides that. Another fancy puck carrier isn't what that line needs hence the ineffectiveness of Sammy on that line.

Sure Lats is a rookie. Why hold that against him? Let the kid find his groove especially if he may fit in on a certain line because of what he'll offer that line. He'll improve and gain confidence because of it. In a couple seasons we'll have a power type forward in lats...it won't be by fluke.

Many criticize Carb for not sending him back to junior because he'll rot on the fourth line. Now he's on 2nd line and those same posters say...well he isn't good enough. It takes time folks. He's a big kid playing with men. That's what he needs to do to improve between the ears also.

plouf · Guru

Well Samsonov is proving us all wrong tonight!

JohnM · Guru

Not all of us Plouf, go back and check some of my comments.

plouf · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Not all of us Plouf, go back and check some of my comments.

Hahaha....well I've sort of defended him too here and there....But you have to admit, a disappointment until tonight.

Andy · Veteran Member

It was the other posters duty to that , because they were quick to throw the stats in my face the first time. And now they are eating their words.

Also I proved my point in last nights game about Latendresse and Sammy. I guess the perfect fit did not work with Latendresse. He is no Sidney Crosby, Malkin, etc, send him to junior let him develop. Samsonov should he should be on the second line, as well with Perezoghin and finally Plekanec can go back to what he is really good defensive hockey.

Carbo's own words was we don't Latendresse to be good now its a 3 or 4 year project. Didn't show that by putting him on line 2.

When Latendresse was needed yesterday he was no where. He turned the clock for the habs Kovalev, Samsonov, Perezoghin. So everything I said yesterday came back to haunt you guys. I rest my case.

Happy Halloween, Merry Christmas, I am done talking with Negativetly on this board. It is like talking to Leaf fans in Toronto.

-- Edited by Andy at 09:56, 2006-10-29

-- Edited by Andy at 10:00, 2006-10-29

mperra (Admin) · Guru

Andy wrote:

Makes sense to me. Put a proven NHLer on the 4th line and junior player on the 2nd line. With these deceisions it makes look like an NHL coach job is like playing a video game. Did Carbo hit the auto line in that decesion. Samsonov at this point in his carrer has alot more talent then Latendresse. For all the other posters that threw the kovalev stats in my face but failed to come back with playoff stats. Compare the stats between Latendresse and Samsonov, its a no brainer. Ask Edmonton who they would want Sammy ( which they could not match montreal's offer especially when they did not know what was happening to Pronger) or Latendresse.

Not too many juniors crack this league and Latendresse should of been one that was either a 4th liner or back in junior. I think the Carbo let him make the team so the Montreal media would not get on his case. Sounds dumb I know, but so does putting Latendresse on the second line. Heck I think Perozoghin should of got to line two before Latendresse.

I don't think he would of made the team of Juilen was the coach. Not saying I don't like Carbo but I don't like that decesion.

Andy you are on the right track. Trust me, sitting in the press box, there's lots of info I come across. It was never Carbo's intention to make Lats a regular on line 2. Carbo is from the school of Bob Gainey and Hitch**** (Dallas days). he's trying to light a fire under players. Samsonov against Boston played more than Lats and Samsonov played on the 3rd line.

Lats has been unimpressive thus far, and if the team is going to go far, Carbo knows that he'll call upon Kovy and Sammy a lot more than Lats.

As far as Lats making the team. Not anything to do with appeasing the media. More of an image with the team. Patrick Roy commented on it last week. More to do with the fact there are only 2 other Quebecers on the team. AN ALLTIME LOW. And Carbo thinks Lats can learn more playing on the 4th line or being with the club in practice. Let's face it, production wise, this season, for Lats, it's a WRITE-OFF. The Canadiens brass aren't expecting much, nor should their fans.

wright · Veteran Member

mperra (Admin) wrote:

Andy wrote:

Makes sense to me. Put a proven NHLer on the 4th line and junior player on the 2nd line. With these deceisions it makes look like an NHL coach job is like playing a video game. Did Carbo hit the auto line in that decesion. Samsonov at this point in his carrer has alot more talent then Latendresse. For all the other posters that threw the kovalev stats in my face but failed to come back with playoff stats. Compare the stats between Latendresse and Samsonov, its a no brainer. Ask Edmonton who they would want Sammy ( which they could not match montreal's offer especially when they did not know what was happening to Pronger) or Latendresse.

Not too many juniors crack this league and Latendresse should of been one that was either a 4th liner or back in junior. I think the Carbo let him make the team so the Montreal media would not get on his case. Sounds dumb I know, but so does putting Latendresse on the second line. Heck I think Perozoghin should of got to line two before Latendresse.

I don't think he would of made the team of Juilen was the coach. Not saying I don't like Carbo but I don't like that decesion.

Andy you are on the right track. Trust me, sitting in the press box, there's lots of info I come across. It was never Carbo's intention to make Lats a regular on line 2. Carbo is from the school of Bob Gainey and Hitch**** (Dallas days). he's trying to light a fire under players. Samsonov against Boston played more than Lats and Samsonov played on the 3rd line.

Lats has been unimpressive thus far, and if the team is going to go far, Carbo knows that he'll call upon Kovy and Sammy a lot more than Lats.

As far as Lats making the team. Not anything to do with appeasing the media. More of an image with the team. Patrick Roy commented on it last week. More to do with the fact there are only 2 other Quebecers on the team. AN ALLTIME LOW. And Carbo thinks Lats can learn more playing on the 4th line or being with the club in practice. Let's face it, production wise, this season, for Lats, it's a WRITE-OFF. The Canadiens brass aren't expecting much, nor should their fans.

Thornton in his rookie season at the age of 19, had a total of 7 points in 56 games with the Bruins. It was not until his third season that he started to come into his own. Lats is a project. The problem is do the Habs have the luxury of letting a 19 year old slowly develop with the team. Buffalo rolls 4 lines, all play at a high level. The Habs fourth line has been disasterous thus far, even with limited minutes. That is not all Lats is fault, but he is contributing to the lack of efficency from that line.

Thus far Lats has not been remotely close to contributing anything offensively. If he goes 20-30 games with zero points, and the french press scrutinizing his lack of production will it have a negative effect on his development, more so than sending him back down? Habs management say they will stick with him, but at how high a cost to his future.

AB Habman · Guru

wright wrote:

mperra (Admin) wrote:

Andy wrote:

Makes sense to me. Put a proven NHLer on the 4th line and junior player on the 2nd line. With these deceisions it makes look like an NHL coach job is like playing a video game. Did Carbo hit the auto line in that decesion. Samsonov at this point in his carrer has alot more talent then Latendresse. For all the other posters that threw the kovalev stats in my face but failed to come back with playoff stats. Compare the stats between Latendresse and Samsonov, its a no brainer. Ask Edmonton who they would want Sammy ( which they could not match montreal's offer especially when they did not know what was happening to Pronger) or Latendresse.

Not too many juniors crack this league and Latendresse should of been one that was either a 4th liner or back in junior. I think the Carbo let him make the team so the Montreal media would not get on his case. Sounds dumb I know, but so does putting Latendresse on the second line. Heck I think Perozoghin should of got to line two before Latendresse.

I don't think he would of made the team of Juilen was the coach. Not saying I don't like Carbo but I don't like that decesion.

Andy you are on the right track. Trust me, sitting in the press box, there's lots of info I come across. It was never Carbo's intention to make Lats a regular on line 2. Carbo is from the school of Bob Gainey and Hitch**** (Dallas days). he's trying to light a fire under players. Samsonov against Boston played more than Lats and Samsonov played on the 3rd line.

Lats has been unimpressive thus far, and if the team is going to go far, Carbo knows that he'll call upon Kovy and Sammy a lot more than Lats.

As far as Lats making the team. Not anything to do with appeasing the media. More of an image with the team. Patrick Roy commented on it last week. More to do with the fact there are only 2 other Quebecers on the team. AN ALLTIME LOW. And Carbo thinks Lats can learn more playing on the 4th line or being with the club in practice. Let's face it, production wise, this season, for Lats, it's a WRITE-OFF. The Canadiens brass aren't expecting much, nor should their fans.

Thornton in his rookie season at the age of 19, had a total of 7 points in 56 games with the Bruins. It was not until his third season that he started to come into his own. Lats is a project. The problem is do the Habs have the luxury of letting a 19 year old slowly develop with the team. Buffalo rolls 4 lines, all play at a high level. The Habs fourth line has been disasterous thus far, even with limited minutes. That is not all Lats is fault, but he is contributing to the lack of efficency from that line.

Thus far Lats has not been remotely close to contributing anything offensively. If he goes 20-30 games with zero points, and the french press scrutinizing his lack of production will it have a negative effect on his development, more so than sending him back down? Habs management say they will stick with him, but at how high a cost to his future.

Wright, that's one thing I haven't thought of. I hope he can handle the critical locals. Good point!

barry33 · Guru

I give full credit to Carbo for lighting a fire under Samsonov and, to a lesser extent, Kovalev. Sometimes a coach needs to do someothing harsh to get his message across. Being placed on the 4th line was a pretty harsh wake up call for Samsonov but one that was needed. As mario said, Carbo is from the "old school". In his playing days if you did not perform up to expectations you did not get your hand held. You got demoted. The season is early and he is going to experiment a bit. Pleks is working hard yes. But he is not a good fit between Kovalev and Samsonov. That is not a knock against Pleks, it is just a fact. Carbo must continue to seek a combination that works.