Canadiens demote Samsonov to fourth line

JohnM · Guru

Canadiens demote Samsonov to fourth line

AB Habman · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Canadian Press

10/25/2006 4:41:31 PM

MONTREAL (CP) - It is hardly the grand return to Boston that Sergei Samsonov wanted.

The veteran winger, who was the Montreal Canadiens' big off-season signing, arrived at practice Wednesday to find he was demoted to the fourth line in favour of rookie Guillaume Latendresse.

''I'm not shocked,'' an angry Samsonov said. ''If you keep track of my ice time, that's what I'm getting right now, I'm a fourth-line player.

''When I came here, I thought I was going to be a go-to guy and obviously, that's not the case right now. What is it going to take? I don't know. We'll see.''

Montreal's game in Boston on Thursday night will be Samsonov's first in Beantown since he was traded by the Bruins on March 9 to the Edmonton Oilers.

The Moscow native had been with Boston since he was drafted eighth overall in 1997 and had his best season there with 75 points in 2000-01.

After helping Edmonton reach the Stanley Cup final last spring, he signed a US$7.05-million, two-year contract as a free agent with Montreal.

Samsonov was playing with Alex Kovalev and centre Tomas Plekanec but they did not find the chemistry that coach Guy Carbonneau was hoping for.

Looking for goals, Carbonneau put the bigger, more physical Latendresse in the five-foot-eight Samsonov's spot on the Kovalev line in the third period of a 4-1 loss to Buffalo on Monday night.

They didn't score, but the coach liked what he saw enough to try it again in Boston. Samsonov had only 12:16 of ice time in the game.

''I think I'm playing well,'' said Samsonov, who has two goals and two assists in eight games. ''It's frustrating when your team is down 3-0 in the third period and you end up sitting on the bench watching the game.

''If that's the case, then obviously I'm not needed here.''

The 27-year-old now wonders where he stands with team management and whether he has a future in Montreal.

''I'm getting paid too much to sit on the bench and watch hockey games and, if that's the case, we'll see where it goes from here,'' Samsonov added.

''I obviously made a commitment to this team. I brought my family here. I bought a house. I'm fully committed to this team, so hopefully we'll come up with something.''

Carbonneau said Samsonov ''is not going anywhere,'' but he wants to roll four lines and needs them all to produce.

He doesn't want to break up his top trio of Saku Koivu, Chris Higgins and Michael Ryder, or his third line of Radek Bonk, Mike Johnson and Alexander Perezhogin, both of which have played well.

That left the fourth line, where Samsonov found himself skating with checkers Steve Begin and Garth Murray.

''You don't want to rely on one line for scoring every game,'' said Carbonneau. ''We need to find line combinations to balance our attack.

''I have nothing against Samsonov, but it's not working right now with Alex. I saw him play before and when we talked about signing him last summer, I was all for it. He's a good player, but we'll keep trying combinations.''

Before training camp, general manager Bob Gainey said he expected Samsonov would need time to adjust to a new team and that he was more interested in how he will be playing in February than in October.

''If that's the plan, somebody's got to let me know,'' added Samsonov.

Samsonov's loss was an unexpected gain for Latendresse, the 19-year-old right winger who made the team after a strong camp.

The Ste-Catherine, Que., native looked lost in his first handful of games, but has begun to find his niche in the last two by hitting opponents and battling for pucks in the corners.

''The role is going to be different and it's up to me to take my chance and try to stay on that line and have a bigger role on the team,'' said Latendresse, who is still seeking his first NHL point.

''Like I told the two players I'm going to play with, if I go in the corner, I'm just going to take the body and you guys take the puck. You're the playmakers, so make your plays and I'm going to be there at the net.''

Where Samsonov and Kovalev both like to hang onto the puck and roam in the attacking zone, Latendresse heads straight in for a hit or goes to the net.

The six-foot-two 229-pound winger also likes to crowd the net to screen goalies and pick up rebounds. The Canadiens intend to keep Latendresse for the entire season rather than return him to the junior Drummondville Voltigeurs.

''In the last two or three games, he felt more confident with the puck on his stick,'' said Carbonneau. ''He wasn't just trying to get rid of it.

''In the first four or five games he made some soft mistakes, which is normal. Now we need to find out what kind of player he is.''

Cristobal Huet, off to a tepid start with a 3.15 goals-against average and an .885 save percentage, is to start in goal for Montreal against Boston's Tim Thomas, who is downright cold with a 4.40 GAA and .866 save percentage.

The Bruins have called up defenceman Matt Lashoff, who they selected 22nd overall in the 2005 draft, to shore up a defence that is without Brad Stuart (broken finger) and Andrew Alberts (separated shoulder). Forward Marco Sturm (knee) is also out.

-- Edited by JohnM at 18:13, 2006-10-25

Sure Sammy...you came because you're a real team player. How about because Gainey was the only one left offering the big bucks.

I hope his attitude turns around because I can see this as an opportunity for him to carry the puck more with more room on the fourth line. Also, he won't have to worry about defense. He can prove himself rather than pout! I hope he doesn't take the "I'm not going to do much on the fourth line to prove I don't belong there" approach!

Muller93 · Guru

I don't like the sounds of how Samsonov is handeling the pressures in Montreal. In fact, I think his comments sucked...

I certainly appreciate his perspective, however 8 games into a season when you have been placed on a line with Kovalev....and slim production........you have little to complain about other than your own poor performance.

Suck it up Sammy. It's gut check time. great players elevate the play of others( Begin/Murray). So are you great....or just a complainer??? We shall see.

AB Habman · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

I don't like the sounds of how Samsonov is handeling the pressures in Montreal. In fact, I think his comments sucked...

I certainly appreciate his perspective, however 8 games into a season when you have been placed on a line with Kovalev....and slim production........you have little to complain about other than your own poor performance.

Suck it up Sammy. It's gut check time. great players elevate the play of others( Begin/Murray). So are you great....or just a complainer??? We shall see.

Exactly!

MC Girl · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

Sure Sammy...you came because you're a real team player. How about because Gainey was the only one left offering the big bucks.

I hope his attitude turns around because I can see this as an opportunity for him to carry the puck more with more room on the fourth line. Also, he won't have to worry about defense. He can prove himself rather than pout! I hope he doesn't take the "I'm not going to do much on the fourth line to prove I don't belong there" approach!

'cause that could blow up in his face.... bein' benched would be the next step as opposed to movin' him back up a line or two. I've already noticed him sittin' a little durin' recent games.

AB Habman · Guru

MC Girl wrote:

AB Habman wrote:

Sure Sammy...you came because you're a real team player. How about because Gainey was the only one left offering the big bucks.

I hope his attitude turns around because I can see this as an opportunity for him to carry the puck more with more room on the fourth line. Also, he won't have to worry about defense. He can prove himself rather than pout! I hope he doesn't take the "I'm not going to do much on the fourth line to prove I don't belong there" approach!

'cause that could blow up in his face.... bein' benched would be the next step as opposed to movin' him back up a line or two. I've already noticed him sittin' a little durin' recent games.

True enough! Carb wouldn't be intimated by his comments. He would bench him if he had to.

Key Lime · Guru

I respect your opinions but come on now, Samsanov is not a fourth line player...

AB Habman · Guru

Key Lime wrote:

I respect your opinions but come on now, Samsanov is not a fourth line player...

He's until he proves otherwise.

rwp2le · Guru

I really like Sammy, and although his play has been improving, he in no way has earned a spot on the 2nd line. I can understand his frustration, but I don't know if his comments were needed. I was a little shocked that he wasn't in the press box to tell the truth. Hopefully this is the kick in the pants we need to get him going. I think it is a good motivational move by Carbs. I guess only time will tell.

steevo · Member

''When I came here, I thought I was going to be a go-to guy and obviously, that's not the case right now. What is it going to take? I don't know. We'll see.''

Come on sami you can say this thinking your play has been at par this year ,please ....your only comments should be what you do on the ice to make it better.....we love you man so prove you are a heart like a lion player like we know you can be !!!

-- Edited by steevo at 21:49, 2006-10-25

plouf · Guru

Key Lime wrote:

I respect your opinions but come on now, Samsanov is not a fourth line player...

I agree here, up to a point. In a traditional 2-big lines, 2-checking lines system, it can't be the long-term plan to have Sammy on the fourth line. Samsonov is not a 4th line player.

But I'm getting the sense that Carbs doesn't really care about the old school line rotation system, and would rather come close to rolling 4 lines, or at least sticking with lines that work, whatever order they're in. This is what I've been arguing this team should do for seasons, with our youth, skating, depth but no dominant players, etc...What you need is for the team to buy into it, and then you become something like.....BUFFALO? I think Montreal has the kind of team that should consider this option - find lines that work, and go with them. Forget about trying to rank them.

As And-o suggested when it was 3-1 vs. Buffalo. Top line was suddenly playing great. 3rd line was suddenly playing great. We were coming back! But the 2nd line had to get its huge ice time. And look what happened. I'm glad to see Carbonneau make these kinds of moves after that important lesson. Let's hope we see more of the 4th line too, with or without Samsonov. We need them to click as well.

gfeaver · Veteran Member

I'm excited to see what Latendresse can do on the 2nd line. I hope he gets a few games to get his feet wet on a more offensive minded line.
As far a Samsonov, His comments are either:
A)good- means he's pissed off enough to start pushing himself harder, or
B)bad - because he is an overpaid primadona.
Hopefully, it is A)....He has shown in the past that he has all the skill ......let's hope he decides to use it..

blank17 · Newbie

I REALLY like Samsonov. Living here in Edmonton, I was FURIOUS when we traded Theo for Abby, just because Edmonton picked up Sammy, and I thought w could have gotten him!

I do think he sounds like he's whining a bit though. I could inderstand his frustration, but if the line isn't producing, why keep it together? Try something new, and see how this works instead. Better to get it right now than in March, when it's too late.

I also think he's right, he's not a fourth line player. If this new line hits it off, and we can;t find a spot for Sammy, maybe we package him and something else and ship them off for a center?? Because with a $44 million dollar cap, wasting 3.5 on a player getting 10 minutes a game is stupid. Just my opinion....

barry33 · Guru

The attitude is typical of many European "stars". They feel that they can live off what they did 4 years ago and just coast..yet remain on one of the top lines. He wants to be a "go to guy"?!?? He is..go to the 4th line Sammy. I am hopeful that this is the wake up call for Kovalev too. Carbo demands a work ethic, no matter what your pedigree is.

Fatherhab · Senior Member

In all sports, there are before plateau, at plateau and post plateau players. In my estimation Sammy has hit the post plateau category and Gainey should have recognized it before signing him. I'm sure that if Kevin Lowe saw anything in this guy, he would have signed him. If I haven't said it before, I'll say it now. GM's can't afford to be wasting cap money. If Sammy turns out to be another waste, Gainey will end up on the Bobby Clark bandwagon.

wright · Veteran Member

Fatherhab wrote:

In all sports, there are before plateau, at plateau and post plateau players. In my estimation Sammy has hit the post plateau category and Gainey should have recognized it before signing him. I'm sure that if Kevin Lowe saw anything in this guy, he would have signed him. If I haven't said it before, I'll say it now. GM's can't afford to be wasting cap money. If Sammy turns out to be another waste, Gainey will end up on the Bobby Clark bandwagon.

I think it is a little premature to start saying that Sammy is in the post plateau category. He is 27 years old hitting the prime of his career. Has he been a dissapointment thus far, yes, but the season is only 8 games old. The goal Samsanov scored against Colorado was a quality goal, he still has the skills, the speed and the on ice vision to be succesful. Not sure why he is not playing well at the moment, but lets give him sometime to get adapted to his new surrondings before determining that he is a wasted signing.

barry33 · Guru

I believe that what we must look at is this, with both Kovalev and Samsonov. We have all talked about how hard it is to attract big free agents to Montreal. This begs the question as to why Samsonov and Kovalev are here? We got Kovy for what was, in effect, an AHL'er. As fatherhab said, in Samsonov's case, if Kevin Lowe saw anything he liked he would have signed him (he had lots of cap space after Pronger flew the coop). I think we need to look at the deeper issues here. Kovalev is 33. Samsonov is 27 but aside from his big year in Boston has been a disappointment. Between the 2 of them they are sucking up 8 million of cap space.

Why is it that every year Gainey is searching for someone who "can play with Kovalev?". That was the main reason he went out and got Samsonov and now Samsonov and his 3.5 mill are playing on the 4th line. Is it possible that Kovalev could be the problem?

Ando · Guru

barry33 wrote:

Is it possible that Kovalev could be the problem?

Possible??? At least!

30_NILAN · Member

This is an old time hockey move. If you remember the movie the Rocket, when Dick Irvin tells Maurice he's not playing, Richard goes wild. And afterwards, Irvin says thats the kind of players he wants there. Now im in no way saying that Samsonov is Maurice Richard. However, what reaction would you rather, him accepting his 4th line role and being content, or him having his competitive nature and being furious about being demoted. Carbo knows the 2nd line has all the tallent in the world, now hes trying to see if there is some heart and guts there. Sure start with Samsonov, he is the new guy. Think about it in Samsonov's case, hes a bigtime star and he just got demoted in favour of a 19 year old rookie! I think anyone with a competitive backbone would want to take a slapshot at Carbo's face. But Carbo is smart, this is done to get that spark. I look for big things from Samsonov very soon.

Keep the faith Habs fans!

Habtastic · Guru

I just checked Sammy's stats and he has 7 shots in 8 games... unacceptable. I agree with Nilan that Carbo is lighting a fire and let's hope it works. I would look to create an all-Ruskie line though by moving Kovy to center like he has mentioned. If he can manage the extra D work he would be the big, fast, offensive center we have been searching for. We have enough skill on the wing to do it, so why not?

Higgins Koivu Ryder
Sammy Kovy Perez
Begin Bonk Johnson
Murray Pleks Lats

If we could get an upgrade for Murray (or if he starts playing like last year) we could roll 4 lines, no problem. It is early in the season and we have some divisional wins so there is little harm in trying. If not, I certainly see Kovy being moved in the future for a center, but not before giving Grabovsky a shot between the two Princes.

Habtastic

Saku11 · Senior Member

I dont know if you guys remember that when Kovalev went down with knee surgery last year, it started our bysmal downward spiral after the pittsburgh game. W lost like 18 of 21 or 22 games. He obviously is NOT the problem.

barry33 · Guru

It is also quite possible that Carbonneau is thinking about sending Latendresse back to Junior. His 10 game limit is coming up. By putting him on the 2nd line with Kovalev and Pleks it gives Carbo a chance to see what he can REALLY do, then make a decision based on that.

At any rate, I respected the fact last year that Claude was the coach and had to make tough decisions and I respect the fact that Carbo has to make tough decisions. These guys ar emuch more qualified to make these judgements than any of us.

-- Edited by barry33 at 11:04, 2006-10-26

Fatherhab · Senior Member

barry33 wrote:

It is also quite possible that Carbonneau is thinking about sending Latendresse back to Junior. His 10 game limit is coming up. By putting him on the 2nd line with Kovalev and Pleks it gives Carbo a chance to see what he can REALLY do, then make a decision based on that.

I would not think that Carbo would going against his word, after saying numerous times in the pass week that Latendresse is here to stay for the rest of the season.

This from the newspaper today:

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20061026/CPSPORTS01/610260843/1006/CPSPORTS01

Guy Carbonneau came to Latendresse's defence( After Roy said Latendresse would be going back to Junior)

"Guillaume is averaging 8 minutes a game since the beginning of the season. If I had been used that much when I first started in the NHL, I would have been very happy, becausw rarely did I get two minutes. I said at the end of training camp and I haven't changesd my mind. Guillaume is with us for the year because he merits it. And it has nothing to do with him being Quebecois. The more he plays, the better he will get and the more confident he will get. We said we would take our time with him, and thats what we are doing", said Carbonneau

-- Edited by Fatherhab at 10:34, 2006-10-26

Andy · Veteran Member

It could be worse. Look at Pavel Datsyuk and Zetterbergs stats. You would be shocked.