Disappointed in "Fans"

barry33 · Guru

Disappointed in "Fans"

wright · Veteran Member

RE: Disappointed in "Fans"

barry33 · Guru

Wright- as I said I am not a Theo fan. But the guy was the franchise for a couple of years. His attitude aside, he did not deserve to be booed mercilessly. And for anyone who thinks that a player actually hears all that booing and lets it bother him, I have news for you. As a professional you do not. Bob Gainey himself chastized the fans for booing Breezer when he was still with Montreal. Obviously it fell on deaf ears.

AB Habman · Guru

I actually thought the fans were conservative last night. He's opposition and in support of their own team, I thought they would boo the heck out of him. Most fans simply don't like Theo and his big ego..."the problem is never my fault" type BS. The paying fan has the right to boo or applaud who they like. Paying those big dollars should be their right. What I didn't agree with was Booing Brisebois while he wore the Hab's jersey.

barry33 · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

I actually thought the fans were conservative last night. He's opposition and in support of their own team, I thought they would boo the heck out of him. Most fans simply don't like Theo and his big ego..."the problem is never my fault" type BS. The paying fan has the right to boo or applaud who they like. Paying those big dollars should be their right. What I didn't agree with was Booing Brisebois while he wore the Hab's jersey.

Fine..like I said boo all you want..but do not turn around and call other teams fans classless.

Jedah · Guru

I agree, Barry. I was really disappointed with the way Theo and Brisebois were treated last night. I for one like those two and am very happy they are finding success on other teams. I think it would have been very classy to applaud them for coming back and playing at the Bell Centre.

I respect your right to boo whomever you choose to, but after reading the Colorado message boards last night, they were calling Habs fans classless. I was reading comments saying they hope guys like Rob Blake don't get booed at the Pepsi Center when he returns.

Like I said, you can boo if you want, but I won't because I hate being called classless, and I will still cheer for those guys because of the many years they dedicated to making our team better.

AB Habman · Guru

Jedah wrote:

I agree, Barry. I was really disappointed with the way Theo and Brisebois were treated last night. I for one like those two and am very happy they are finding success on other teams. I think it would have been very classy to applaud them for coming back and playing at the Bell Centre.

I respect your right to boo whomever you choose to, but after reading the Colorado message boards last night, they were calling Habs fans classless. I was reading comments saying they hope guys like Rob Blake don't get booed at the Pepsi Center when he returns.

Like I said, you can boo if you want, but I won't because I hate being called classless, and I will still cheer for those guys because of the many years they dedicated to making our team better.

I think it's the fan mentality that goes along with paying huge bucks to watch and support their team. They probably feel it's their right to express their emotions.

As for Theo, I don't think you can call 6 wins of 22 games a success with Aves. He has failed to live up to his contract on that team also. I actually didn't feel sorry for the millionare one bit last night.

I did however feel sorry for Brise because he had his share of bashing while a Hab from fans so it's time to move on and let him do his thing. Also heard Aves have been happy with his performance for what they're paying him. He isn't over paid like Theo!

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

I have to say I am in total agreement Barry,

As amazing as us Habs fans are in many ways, we tend to show a lack of class. Brisebois worked harder than ever befor in his final season with us, and he got booed because of previous years. Ribeiro worked harder this offseason then ever before (though it is debatable just how hard that was) and we don't give him a chance. Sure, Theo acted like a superstar a bit too much, and his play suffered a lot in his final year, but does that mean we should taunt him mercilessly in what was probably one of the tougher nights in his life?

I think Habs fans hit a low a few years back when we were booing the US national anthem. I am probably as against Bush and US forign policy as anybody (don't want to start a political debate though) but that gives us no right to boo the entire nation.

Kowledgeable about hockey? Yeah. Demanding and full of energy? Definitely! Full of class? it is not what we are known for, and frankly we don't deserve to be.

Not trying to take jabs at anyone, since I am probably as bad as everyone else without noticing it, but it's a fact, we didn't act with class last night.

Manton · Member

I too was disappointed at the booing. I still believe the Montreal organization is one of the classiest in any sport. Anyway, my emotions re Theo are all over the place. First, I acknowledge that except for last year, he had been a solid goalie for us. He always came across polite, did the media interviews and he seemed to friendly to the fans in public. However, whether success went to his head (the big contract) or not, he seemed to fall into the wrong crowd....he seemed to attract a lot of questionable attention to himself and he is ultimately to blame.

You could tell from the beginning of last season, his play was not going to be up to par...new rules, changes in equipment, attitude, player influences...who knows how much of this played a part but I have to tell you, after seeing him being pulled from that game in Vancouver and watching him in the hallway behind the bench with his head down in frustration, I felt so sad for him and I almost wanted to cry. I guess because of that feeling and knowing that he played so well for the most part on a team that was average at best, I could only wish him well when he was traded and I would never boo him.

As for Brisebois, I also felt a little sorry for him cause I thought the fans were quick to boo him...he had become the whipping boy of the team. I respected Gainey though for speaking up for him and did you notice that Brisebois's play improved after that. Gainey did the right thing in trading Theo and getting rid of the so-called clique in the dressing room. It appears the players now are as tight as ever but we'll see how they handle the first bit of any adversity.

AB Habman · Guru

You guys realize I'm basing my opinions on the opening thread as how the fans responded to Theo and Brise specifically.

As for the fans in general booing the anthem...yes that's classless. Also difficult for me to judge the fans in general on how they treat players behind the scenes because I live far away from the Montreal media and local news to be objective on the topic.

Again I felt sorry for Brise but not for Theo. I may of got caught up in the taunting if I was watching this game live...who knows?

Wonder how the gang who were present reacted????

Fatherhab · Senior Member

From my personal point of view, having had contact in the past with Theodore, I took great pleasure hearing and seeing the treatment he received last evening in Montreal. What comes around goes around and it all caught up with this egotistical SOB. It has always been ALL about JOSE and no one else but JOSE, and the paying fans, who supported the Habs last night by distracting him, did their jobs. Just imagine if he had won, we would never hear the end of it.

plouf · Guru

barry33 wrote:

I know this will cause some controversy, but I have to say that I was disappointed in how the fans treated Theodore and Breezer upon their return to Montreal. Iwatched the game on tv with my wife to be (who is an athlete but is neutral when it comes to hockey and the habs..but I am working on that :) and she said to me several times that she felt the fans were not showing much class when they booed those two constantly. I agree. I know that when you pay 140 bucks a ticket you can say pretty much what you want. But we constantly hear on this board what a class organization Montreal is and how classless some of the fans are in other cities. How do you think people watching that game on TV last night form other cities view the fans in Montreal now??

Now before anyone accsues me of being "pro-Theo" let me put this in persepctive. He, more than any other, caused CJ to lose his job last year. A coupl;e short years ago we on this board treated Theo like he was a God. He singlehandedly got us into the playoffs and past the Bruins. Neither Theo nor Brisebois asked to be traded. It was a team decision to Trade Theo and a team decision not renew Breezer's contract. Now they have moved on and are doing the best they can to keep their career's alive. Breezer gave the Montreal organization the best years of his career.

So before we begin calling the fans in Toronto, Buffalo, or Ottawa "classless", let us all look at the example we set.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with you Barry.

(Maybe now you will buy my point about the fans and media being the main reason Gainey can't grab us the free agents we want?)

Peart_2112 · Veteran Member

I think the last time I remember fans applauding a former player was when LaFleur returned to the ice in a Rangers jersey after his "retirement." I personally have never booed an opposing player and I never will regardless of my opinion of him. The only booing I agree with is booing the refs for a blown call.............

barry33 · Guru

Fatherhab wrote:

From my personal point of view, having had contact in the past with Theodore, I took great pleasure hearing and seeing the treatment he received last evening in Montreal. What comes around goes around and it all caught up with this egotistical SOB. It has always been ALL about JOSE and no one else but JOSE, and the paying fans, who supported the Habs last night by distracting him, did their jobs. Just imagine if he had won, we would never hear the end of it.

I will buy that. Jose brought alot on himself. I have made it clear from the time Jose was in Montreal that I di dnot like his attitude. But what is your excuse/reason for Brisebois? What did he do wrong when he was in Montreal? Oh yes..there was the "trip to France".OMG..what a travesty to the organization!!!!!!!!! What will happen if Saks finally gets fed up and demands a trade and is given it? Will the "Montreal faithful" forget all he has given the orgaiziation and boo him unmercifully his first game back? Probably.

Muller93 · Guru

I agree when it comes to bris...never sure why he was booed to badly.

NOW...Theo on the other hand is a guy who has no class and a huge ego to boot.

Come on now Barry. This guy is quoted as saying that the only guy he keeps in contact with is none other than Ribeiro....plus he is quoted as saying that he enjoys Colorado because people have lives outside of hockey. What a classless comment. It was a jab at some of the greatest fans around who made him who he...WAS...

IMO he deserved every boo he got. He lost touch with reality and blamed everyone else but himself.

Ando · Guru

And-o has NEVER been afraid to 'Booo' ANYONE...but know what???...in the 2002-2003 season, Jose Theodore won both the Hart and the Vezina...and carried this franchise on his shoulders into the playoffs (NOT ANY OTHER HAB PLAYER HAS ACCOMPLISHED NEARLY AS MUCH IN THE PAST 12 SEASONS)!

Of course And-o would heckle Theo...but I would have 'charity clapped' for him BEFORE the game once or twice!!!

Desi · Senior Member

When I signed on tonight, I wondered if anyone had broached this topic, and I'm not surprised that Mr. 33 is the one who did so.

You're to be commended, Barry.

I spent too many nights cheering for Theo (the player) to wish him ill now, no matter what Theo (the civilian) did or does in his free time. Same goes for Brisebois.

A fan with class would've politely applauded Theo and Patrice before the game, and cheered when the home team scored, not taunted Theo as some in the Bell Centre did.

Personally, I was hoping we'd win the game 1-0, but of course I'm happy with any win and it was certainly nice to see us net 8 markers, even if they did come at Theo's expense.

In the privacy of my own home, I of course tittered when Theo kept getting beaten. But I would never have done so publicly, and I was surprised at the way Theo was treated by the fans. It sends the wrong message about the fans in Montreal -- and it sends the wrong message to the team's current players. Think of it this way, if you were Cristobal Huet and you heard how these fans had turned on Theo, their hero not so long ago, how much do you think you'd care about playing great for them the next time you took the ice?

Les Canadiens sont la

Johab · Guru

At the game...what did i do??

Brisebois heard not one boo from my mouth....

1- because i was too far away

2- because i simply didnt boo him

Theo, clapped when he came out, but not like i did for when he was a hab, it was more a clap of your here, your playing and your not afraid to face the fans or your old team and i respect that.

I DID however join in on the THEEEEEE-OOOO chants because who doesnt want to see the habs win big? I still have a soft spot for theo, but after defending him for sooo long, and getting bashed for it and not backing up anything i said or felt he was capable of doing, i think he deserves a bit of tough love. All habs fans im sure are happy for the good years he ave us, but as soon as that 5 million contract that he almost held out on us to get was signed, i never felt the same way about him again. HE has never been the same goalie and probably never will be. Theo's "ELITE" years in the league are done. And so is anything to do with him coming back to this city, for at least another 4 years ( unless he is traded )

davidb · Guru

The Avalanche announcers said that Breezer and his wife went to a hospital in montreal earlier in the day. When they got there, he gave a check for 50,000 to the hospital. Thats pretty good ay

Johab · Guru

RE: Disappointed in "Fans"

Muller93 · Guru

I always thought breezer was a class act. Like i said...never understood why the fans got on him. Anyone know?

I stick by my comments on Theo. I just lost all respect for the guy. The icing on the cake for me is when he essentially stated that Montreal fans have no life outside hockey. Just a friuty lame comment...

Notice his post game comments claiming "we should be ashamed of that effort". I think what he meant is his teamates should be ashamed for not playing a defensive game to make him look good. Hmmmm...makes me wonder if his new teamates can't stand the ego head either.

-- Edited by Muller93 at 20:08, 2006-10-22

habscsi · Member

RE: Disappointed in "Fans"

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

First off, let's clear up this misconception that Theo only had one good year. It is strictly not true.

By the one good year we are talking about the 2001-2002 when he had one of the best seasons of any goalie in recent memory up to that point. That season was absolutely brilliant in so many ways. It was not just a "good season".

The year before he had a .909 save percentage and that was a "good" season. He was an above average starter that year.

The year after his Vezina season, he had a .908 save percentage, but suffered from inconsistancy behind a horrid defense. He was still an above average goalie, but in contrast to his Vezina year, and especially with a slow start, he looked awful.

The year after that he worked his ass off and was again one of the top goalies in the league. a .919 save percentage is very difficult to get. He also had a pretty damn good season as a back-up in 1999-2000 when he also posted a .919 save percentage.

During the lockout he was awesome in Sweden for Djurgarden.

It was only after the lockout that he proved he does not belong in the new NHL, or at least not the same way as before. He was a reaction goalie based on speed, not a technical goalie. He was fast enough for the old NHL, but not fast enough for the new one. He lives and dies on his speed, so when the play got a bit faster, he suffered proportionally.

Yes, the Habs organisation is classy, but we the fans don't seem to be. To boo a guy out of his hometown is not justifiable by saying that "we were just trying to get under his skin." Next we'll be signing Avery to say racist things, or throwing bananas on the ice to get under black players' skins. I hope we never sink to those lows, but what we did to Jose and Brisebois was uncalled for, and if we want to call ourselves classy, we can't do that kind of ****.

They are both Quebecois, and yeah, they play for another team, but they should never have to feel unwelcome at home.

Maybe I am over the top, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

Johab · Guru

Ok wait, are we talking about the BOOING or the TAUNTING both are WAAAAY different. Booing is simply stating your dislikes allowed. Taunting is trying to get under the persons skin and throw them off their game. I did not once boo theo. I did however taunt him in hopes to get under his skin. As it is normal in the game ( Sammy Salo after the olympics ) Fans will try to get to a goalie, taunting is definately reasonable in my mind! And if i remember correctly Theo was taunted much more than booed last night. He was booed at the beginning of the game not the classiest...then Taunted after every goal. which to me is PERFECTLY FINE!

Muller93 · Guru

Traveling Hab wrote:

First off, let's clear up this misconception that Theo only had one good year. It is strictly not true.

By the one good year we are talking about the 2001-2002 when he had one of the best seasons of any goalie in recent memory up to that point. That season was absolutely brilliant in so many ways. It was not just a "good season".

The year before he had a .909 save percentage and that was a "good" season. He was an above average starter that year.

The year after his Vezina season, he had a .908 save percentage, but suffered from inconsistancy behind a horrid defense. He was still an above average goalie, but in contrast to his Vezina year, and especially with a slow start, he looked awful.

The year after that he worked his ass off and was again one of the top goalies in the league. a .919 save percentage is very difficult to get. He also had a pretty damn good season as a back-up in 1999-2000 when he also posted a .919 save percentage.

During the lockout he was awesome in Sweden for Djurgarden.

It was only after the lockout that he proved he does not belong in the new NHL, or at least not the same way as before. He was a reaction goalie based on speed, not a technical goalie. He was fast enough for the old NHL, but not fast enough for the new one. He lives and dies on his speed, so when the play got a bit faster, he suffered proportionally.

Yes, the Habs organisation is classy, but we the fans don't seem to be. To boo a guy out of his hometown is not justifiable by saying that "we were just trying to get under his skin." Next we'll be signing Avery to say racist things, or throwing bananas on the ice to get under black players' skins. I hope we never sink to those lows, but what we did to Jose and Brisebois was uncalled for, and if we want to call ourselves classy, we can't do that kind of ****.

They are both Quebecois, and yeah, they play for another team, but they should never have to feel unwelcome at home.

Maybe I am over the top, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

I think you are missing the point.

I think Theo got booed partly because he made some pretty lame comments about Montreal fans having no life...What does he expect with a comment like that?

only keeping in touch with Ribeiro( which says alot about a guys character given the likes of Koivu. Souray, Rivet, etc are in that locker room)...

habscsi...I like your style...you should post more often.

habscsi · Member

traveling hab i know you like Theo and all but to call .908 (22nd among goalies) above average and his .919(9th) with a GAA that ranked 16(although it was 2.27) a good year puts quite a spin in Theo's favour compared to all the other goalies in the league unless the other 16+ who out-stated him had great years.

Lets face it for a few years goalie stats got miniscule because of the trap and defensive play along with the equipment factor and Theo got lucky the year he led the stats no one in the league scored 100 pts and only Iggy scored 50.As you can see if your looking up his stats the past few years how many goalies rank ahead of him in each catagory who were never even mentioned as elite goalies(roloson for example) cause while Theo was putting up .919 and 2.27 and having a "good" year(average compared to rest of the league)Roloson put up .933 and 1.88 in 48 games and couldnt even get a for sure #1 billing! let alone a Vezina

So we seem to get a little biased because he was a Hab at the time.Well his stat rankings show he was middle of the road every year but 1 and now with the equipment advantage gone WOW no wonder .909 looks good to you when for 2 years he's been sporting a .882 % and lower not to mention his 3+ GAA

And really we cant taunt a player .All they did was a few boo's and chanting his name ,dont turn this into a fans got personal thing! If it got personal or ethnic sure then no Class but i think Theo's comments about team mates and fans both prior to and post trade were way more personal than what he faced Sat. night plus not one member of the Habs talked bad about him when they have ample fingers to point at him seeing his play of the past few yrs! Thanks for the TWO POINTS now BACK to Vanilla Ice territory!!!!

Fatherhab · Senior Member

Well well, are we talking about the same fans , some of who come on here hoping that Abby does not suceed. Give this guy a break, Habs are down 3-0 , not totally Abby's fault, but just imagine for a second. It's 3-o , Sakic is on a breakaway, and Abby comes up big, real big, Souray scores to make up for his -1 plus/minus despite his 2 goals and 2 assists. These same fans would have probably booed and taunted Abby out of the rink with pleasure last night if the score had been reversed. Abby didn't stand on his head, but he made some great saves, and didn't hotdog them like Theodore did on the one glove save he made on Higgins. Waving his glove around(look what I found here) final score 8-5 Habs suck on that Theo!!!!

Last time I looked, Abby is 3 and 1 and the Habs have 10 points in the that column. Not bad for a back-up goalie at less than 5 million.

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

habscsi wrote:

traveling hab i know you like Theo and all but to call .908 (22nd among goalies) above average and his .919(9th) with a GAA that ranked 16(although it was 2.27) a good year puts quite a spin in Theo's favour compared to all the other goalies in the league unless the other 16+ who out-stated him had great years.

Lets face it for a few years goalie stats got miniscule because of the trap and defensive play along with the equipment factor and Theo got lucky the year he led the stats no one in the league scored 100 pts and only Iggy scored 50.As you can see if your looking up his stats the past few years how many goalies rank ahead of him in each catagory who were never even mentioned as elite goalies(roloson for example) cause while Theo was putting up .919 and 2.27 and having a "good" year(average compared to rest of the league)Roloson put up .933 and 1.88 in 48 games and couldnt even get a for sure #1 billing! let alone a Vezina

So we seem to get a little biased because he was a Hab at the time.Well his stat rankings show he was middle of the road every year but 1 and now with the equipment advantage gone WOW no wonder .909 looks good to you when for 2 years he's been sporting a .882 % and lower not to mention his 3+ GAA

And really we cant taunt a player .All they did was a few boo's and chanting his name ,dont turn this into a fans got personal thing! If it got personal or ethnic sure then no Class but i think Theo's comments about team mates and fans both prior to and post trade were way more personal than what he faced Sat. night plus not one member of the Habs talked bad about him when they have ample fingers to point at him seeing his play of the past few yrs! Thanks for the TWO POINTS now BACK to Vanilla Ice territory!!!!

As hard as it might be to beileve, I don't actually like Theo that much, (maybe as a fellow goalie I have a certain amount of empathy for him) I just don't feel that any player deserves that. And yeah, a .919 average is a pretty good year with no defensive support. His GAA was higher only because of weak defence on our team. Save percentage is a pretty good measure of a goalie, and GAA is a measure of a goalie and the team.

We should not be booing him out of the stadium. We were pretty harsh on the guy, and the fact that we were harsh on Brisebois too just shows that it wasn't about Theo being full of himself, it was about them being the whipping boys and we were having a laugh at their expense. I understand if you disagree, I am probably in the minority on this one and that's fine, but I think that was one of our lower moments.

Theo dragged us into the playoffs and gave us some great seasons (at least one as a starter and one as a backup) as well as did good charity work, regardless of having an inflated ego and not being good enough for the faster game, he should feel (relatively) welcome in his home province. Ditto for Brisebois. That's the last I will post on this since I have said everything I need to on the subject. I respect your point of view, and I understand that I am in the minority here, I just see that kind of attitude as an example of the bad sportsmanship that seems to have gripped almost every sport and it grinds my gears.

That being said most of our players treated them with respect and that is definitely a good thing.

wright · Veteran Member

Muller93 wrote:

I always thought breezer was a class act. Like i said...never understood why the fans got on him. Anyone know?

I stick by my comments on Theo. I just lost all respect for the guy. The icing on the cake for me is when he essentially stated that Montreal fans have no life outside hockey. Just a friuty lame comment...

Notice his post game comments claiming "we should be ashamed of that effort". I think what he meant is his teamates should be ashamed for not playing a defensive game to make him look good. Hmmmm...makes me wonder if his new teamates can't stand the ego head either.

-- Edited by Muller93 at 20:08, 2006-10-22

Brisebois, fairly or unfairly became the whipping boy for the fans frustration with the Habs poor play in the late '90's. His glaring defensive gaffs became difficult for some fans to accept, particularly after he signed the 16 million dollar contract with the team. His quote during contract negotiations " I only want to be paid what I am worth. I am not asking for millions,oh excuse me I meant to say that", did not help his cause with some fans. His decision to take a vacation and go to France while he was on injured reserve did not strike the right note with some fans who felt he should have stayed in Montreal and continue rehabing, than taking off in the middle of the season, leading some to beleive his injury was not that serious.

Never agreed with the idea of relentlessly booing a player wearing the Habs jersey. Unfortunately it has become a tradition. A segment of the fans booed Terry Harper out of Montreal. Approximately three years before Larry Robinson was traded to LA, a segment of fans continually booed him. That to me is bad form.

A segment of Montreal fans seem to feel that once a player has crossed a certain line, it is open season to boo, to this day Lindross is booed every time he plays in Montreal, some fans will never forgive his comments about playing in Quebec, and some fans view Brisebois with as much disdain for his contract and poor play with the Habs.

MC Girl · Guru

Johab wrote:

At the game...what did i do??

Brisebois heard not one boo from my mouth....

1- because i was too far away

2- because i simply didnt boo him

Theo, clapped when he came out, but not like i did for when he was a hab, it was more a clap of your here, your playing and your not afraid to face the fans or your old team and i respect that.

I DID however join in on the THEEEEEE-OOOO chants because who doesnt want to see the habs win big? I still have a soft spot for theo, but after defending him for sooo long, and getting bashed for it and not backing up anything i said or felt he was capable of doing, i think he deserves a bit of tough love. All habs fans im sure are happy for the good years he ave us, but as soon as that 5 million contract that he almost held out on us to get was signed, i never felt the same way about him again. HE has never been the same goalie and probably never will be. Theo's "ELITE" years in the league are done. And so is anything to do with him coming back to this city, for at least another 4 years ( unless he is traded )

...

Ok wait, are we talking about the BOOING or the TAUNTING both are WAAAAY different. Booing is simply stating your dislikes allowed. Taunting is trying to get under the persons skin and throw them off their game. I did not once boo theo. I did however taunt him in hopes to get under his skin. As it is normal in the game ( Sammy Salo after the olympics ) Fans will try to get to a goalie, taunting is definately reasonable in my mind! And if i remember correctly Theo was taunted much more than booed last night. He was booed at the beginning of the game not the classiest...then Taunted after every goal. which to me is PERFECTLY FINE!

I feel & responded the exact same way as Johab. I did not Boo Theo or Breezy (as I promised in the interview) but I joined in the Theeee-oooo chants to get under his skin. That's not a classless action... it's a payin' fans passion.