Not Happy with Latendresse

chelii chilli · Member

Not Happy with Latendresse

JohnM · Guru

Personally, I think he should be sent down after his 9 games. He is adding no value to the team right now and I am not sure he is learning much currently.

I could be wrong, i.e. Carbo and the boys are instilling what it takes to make it in this league, but I dunno. It seems that the 4th line is on the ice for most of the goals against.

chelii chilli · Member

I agree. But send him down now. No need to wait the 9 games.

AB Habman · Guru

As far as Lats goes, I think Carb and co will make the right decisions with him. I'm not worried one way or the other.

My concern is with the vets that aren't bringing it. The second line wingers to be specific.

Lats on the fourth line is the right way but a little line juggling could go a long way to making him more effective and adding more offensive balance throughout. We have to take the load off the first line sooner rather than later.

Fatherhab · Senior Member

JohnM wrote:

It seems that the 4th line is on the ice for most of the goals against.

Sorry John, stats don't show this.

Buffalo game - Buffalo 4 goals Latendresse -1

Toronto Game- Toronto 2 goals Latendresse 0

Philly game- Philly 1 goal Latendresse 0

Ottawa game 2 goals Lentendresse -1

I'm patient and can wait for another game or two to see if he gets an opportunity to show more offense. I'm sure Carb and Gainey are assessing the situation and will make the right decision prior to game 10 of the season.

Figaro · Guru

Can they even send him down?

Anyway, he will be here all year unless he doesn't develop. And you can't develop a Power Forward in 2 weeks. He'll start getting some PP time and top line time later this year, probably in games where we are a couple goals up or something like that. There is no way to totally assess this guy in just 4 games.

NEWFIEHABSFAN · Senior Member

come on guys, have a little patience with the kid! what did you guys expect, that lats would come out and be a instant scoring star like cosby! let the kid get his feet wet with a few more regular season games, pre-season is not like the regular season!

adam13 · Member

First of all Lats role right know is not to be a scorer...its to be a gritty agitator...playing on a line with Murray/Downey and Begin you are not expected to score...

Carbo is planning on easing him into the lineup and thats precisely what he is doing...he is only going to get more responsible on D under the tutelage of Jarvis, Carbo and Kirk so I am not worried...he will get better as the year progresses.

barry33 · Guru

If I am gonna get rid of anyone it would be Downey followed by Murray. I like Murray. But lets face it. Who has a brighter future with the Canadiens, young Latendresse or Murray/Downey? As I said in another post., I feel that Gui has been buried on the 4th line by Guy to set him up for failure so he can justifiy shipping him down without any media flack.

fHABulous · Veteran Member

he's got absolutly nothing to learn if he goes back down to juniors...staying with the habs he's going to learn about work ethics and much more with the likes of saku, begin carbo...and carbo said that if latendresse made it in the nhl he would stay...he also said that fans were going to be hard on him and not understand why he is there...you are all forgeting he is NOT Guy Lafleur

mperra (Admin) · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Personally, I think he should be sent down after his 9 games. He is adding no value to the team right now and I am not sure he is learning much currently.

I could be wrong, i.e. Carbo and the boys are instilling what it takes to make it in this league, but I dunno. It seems that the 4th line is on the ice for most of the goals against.

If he stays with the club after 10 games, the Canadiens SHOULD loan him to play for team Canada at the World Junior Championships. I agree he should be sent down. Look at Ryder and Higgins. Canadiens were patient enough with them and see how they are producing now.

Also, if he stays with the club, that means come age 25 (or is it 26) he can become an UFA. it's simple, can he make the difference NOW?? if not, why make him play with the parent club so early?

I still think he will be sent down after the Habs play Boston Oct 26.

chelii chilli · Member

As I originally stated, I still think that he should get sent down right away. Contrary to what most think, Gui has A LOT to learn by sending him down. He has yet to proove himself at this level and until he makes his mark during the REGULAR season, he should not be on the team taking up precious cap space.

As for those who think that there is a conspiracy theory for putting him on the 4th line, why would the Canadiens appeal to the Media? It's totally out of Gainey's character to do that.

skov1044 · Member

even though he hasnt really shown us anything yet besides he likes to take long shifts

the fans love him

i was at the game vs the senators his ovation was louder than everyone besides carbo and the captain,they cheered everytime he touche d the puck

i say give him a chance to get some confidence and start throwing his body around ,he could really get the crowd into it ,this could sometimes pick up a team

plus he not going to score a lot with downey ,murray,begin

chelii chilli · Member

The fans shouldn't have anything to do with the decisions on the ice. If that was the case, why would we need Gainey or Carbo? Even if they cheer Gui every shift, the point is that if he's not an asset at this point, he will hinder his own development and the teams' if he continues to play here.

skov1044 · Member

really

i disagree ,how many times have you watched a game where a

team was dragging there feet and some bone crushing hit woke up the crowd and the team

i agree if lats doesnt start throwing his body around ,he should be sent down

but right now i think he needs more than 4 games

Figaro · Guru

barry33 wrote:

...I feel that Gui has been buried on the 4th line by Guy to set him up for failure so he can justifiy shipping him down without any media flack.

I'm sorry, Barry, but that's rediculous. Absurd, even. Coaches don't set their players up for failure to cover their own arse. If he did want to set him up for failure, why not stick him up on a top line or on the PP? Take what Carbo said as the truth - he's easing him in and Gui will have to learn the ropes.

barry33 · Guru

Figaro wrote:

barry33 wrote:

...I feel that Gui has been buried on the 4th line by Guy to set him up for failure so he can justifiy shipping him down without any media flack.

I'm sorry, Barry, but that's rediculous. Absurd, even. Coaches don't set their players up for failure to cover their own arse. If he did want to set him up for failure, why not stick him up on a top line or on the PP? Take what Carbo said as the truth - he's easing him in and Gui will have to learn the ropes.

Figs- you are probably right, was just throwing that out as a possibility. But I can tell you that I learned alot about what goes on in the back rooms if the NHL..and it sometimes ain't pretty. All I am saying is do not underestimate the effect of the Montreal Media and fans on how the team is run.

Fatherhab · Senior Member

Figs, I have to agree with Barry's supposition. So many strange things go on behind close doors. The politics involved in the decision making would astound people. Management would never let this out of the bag, but you could be sure that there is a plan in place on how they will deal with Latendresse and it will relate to his performance. If you are paying attention to the different french forums, the support for keeping Latendresse with the big boys has dropped significantly. These fans are very knowledgeable as well and know when a player is not ready. The media plays their role in stirring up a controversy whenever they can to keep things interesting. Management is minimizing the fall out should they have to send him down by showcasing him on the fourth line because they have to, but in end they will make a decision which is best for the team and Latendresse. I am hoping that the kid proves that he is capable of staying in the bigs........but I now am not sure he is ready for it--again hoping I'm wrong.

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

What seems obvious is that Lats is not prepared to be a grinder yet. He has had no training to do the job, and he is learning it now.

He probably would have fit in better on the number two line with one or both of the russian twins if Kovy could really play center, but (assuming there is no conspiracy, and I know nothing of NHL backroom dealings, so there very well might be) now he is learning a few key things: how to be defensively responsible, how to throw his body around, and that things need to be earned.

If he is a good pupil and his confidence doesn't suffer, these lessons will make him a far better player in the long run. I don't mind him being mediocre on the fourth line for the beginning of the season. What must happen though, is when a scoring spot opens up due to injury, he must jump on the opportunity. If he doesn't, then he will have a very rough time here.

barry33 · Guru

Traveling Hab wrote:

What seems obvious is that Lats is not prepared to be a grinder yet. He has had no training to do the job, and he is learning it now.

He probably would have fit in better on the number two line with one or both of the russian twins if Kovy could really play center, but (assuming there is no conspiracy, and I know nothing of NHL backroom dealings, so there very well might be) now he is learning a few key things: how to be defensively responsible, how to throw his body around, and that things need to be earned.

If he is a good pupil and his confidence doesn't suffer, these lessons will make him a far better player in the long run. I don't mind him being mediocre on the fourth line for the beginning of the season. What must happen though, is when a scoring spot opens up due to injury, he must jump on the opportunity. If he doesn't, then he will have a very rough time here.

You are absolutely correct T H. You are taking a kid, who has been a star in Junior, a kid that plays the Power Play and in all key situations, a kid who logs MAJOR minutes in every game, and all of sudden put him on the 4th line with a couple guys who can barely skate and see limited ice time. How would we expect him to perform after 4 games? Quite an adjustment dont ya think? At least in the Exhibition season he was up on the first couple of lines and used in a PP situation now and then.

plouf · Guru

All I am saying is do not underestimate the effect of the Montreal Media and fans on how the team is run.

Also on how the players perform, who wants to come here, etc...
Many people have blamed Gainey alone for the difficulty we have in getting top-line free agents over to Montreal. It's not always a coincidence, or even due to bad management, that we have consistently had trouble luring free agents. Montreal is a place where if you don't perform you will be booed mercilessly. I know other teams have intense fans, but I think the negativity gets strongest in Montreal when things go wrong. Strong enough that it actually impedes our progress at times, and hurts our chances of rebuilding a winner.

I'm aware of the pride issue, the glory of wearing a Habs jersey, etc....I know all that. And yet I'm still not surprised that a star player, especially a mature free agent, often someone with wife and kids who could easily become media victims themselves, would avoid Montreal like the plague.

Let's be careful with Latendresse. We don't want to mess this kid up.

-- Edited by plouf at 18:27, 2006-10-17

-- Edited by plouf at 18:28, 2006-10-17

barry33 · Guru

plouf wrote:

All I am saying is do not underestimate the effect of the Montreal Media and fans on how the team is run.

Also on how the players perform, who wants to come here, etc...
Many people have blamed Gainey alone for the difficulty we have in getting top-line free agents over to Montreal. It's not always a coincidence, or even due to bad management, that we have consistently had trouble luring free agents. Montreal is a place where if you don't perform you will be booed mercilessly. I know other teams have intense fans, but I think the negativity gets strongest in Montreal when things go wrong. Strong enough that it actually impedes our progress at times, and hurts our chances of rebuilding a winner.

I'm aware of the pride issue, the glory of wearing a Habs jersey, etc....I know all that. And yet I'm still not surprised that a star player, especially a mature free agent, often someone with wife and kids who could easily become media victims themselves, would avoid Montreal like the plague.

Let's be careful with Latendresse. We don't want to mess this kid up.

-- Edited by plouf at 18:27, 2006-10-17

-- Edited by plouf at 18:28, 2006-10-17

Some will say "Well guys like Perez and Higgins started on the 4th line". You cannot compare the 2. Higgins and Perez had time in the AHL to grow and develop. Latendresse is a junior.

Fatherhab · Senior Member

Lets remember as well that Quebec fans want a homegrown hero, and when it does not work out a la Brisebois, Theodore, Desjardins, Ribs, these fans can be quite harsh on their own. Can you think of any other Habs players who were not Quebecers that were booed as earnestly as the fore-mentionned group?

wright · Veteran Member

barry33 wrote:

plouf wrote:

All I am saying is do not underestimate the effect of the Montreal Media and fans on how the team is run.

Also on how the players perform, who wants to come here, etc...
Many people have blamed Gainey alone for the difficulty we have in getting top-line free agents over to Montreal. It's not always a coincidence, or even due to bad management, that we have consistently had trouble luring free agents. Montreal is a place where if you don't perform you will be booed mercilessly. I know other teams have intense fans, but I think the negativity gets strongest in Montreal when things go wrong. Strong enough that it actually impedes our progress at times, and hurts our chances of rebuilding a winner.

I'm aware of the pride issue, the glory of wearing a Habs jersey, etc....I know all that. And yet I'm still not surprised that a star player, especially a mature free agent, often someone with wife and kids who could easily become media victims themselves, would avoid Montreal like the plague.

Let's be careful with Latendresse. We don't want to mess this kid up.

-- Edited by plouf at 18:27, 2006-10-17

-- Edited by plouf at 18:28, 2006-10-17

Some will say "Well guys like Perez and Higgins started on the 4th line". You cannot compare the 2. Higgins and Perez had time in the AHL to grow and develop. Latendresse is a junior.

I don't understand the rationale that since Lats experience is limited to junior hockey, therefore he should be entitled to play on the first or second line so as to not hinder his development. Based on his exhibition performance he deserves to start ahead of one of the following: Ryder,Higgins,Kovalev,Samsanov? If he did start on one of the top two lines the expectations and pressure might be detrimental to his progress. Bringing him along more slowly on a lower line with less expectations might be better.

Playing on the fourth line is not easy,but bring some passion, committment,energy, work ethic and even if the stats are not there,you will get noticed and eventually rewarded. Don't think those attributes are only exclusively learned in the AHL. If the work ethic is not there on the fourth line, why suddenly would it come out on the second line. Injuries and slumps to players ahead of him will happen, if he is working hard on the fourth line he will be better prepared when a better opprtunity comes his way.

plouf · Guru

Amen. Anyway, maybe it's too soon to send the guy down? Let's see what he can bring with a few minutes on the power play. (You know, like Ribeiro....

)

30_NILAN · Member

I dont think we should send this kid down. He's snakebit right now in terms of handling the puck, but he is throwing the body all the time, and you have to love that. The guy is working hard, and I'm sorry to say we cant all be Crosby's or Ovechkin's. Let him stay, he isnt doing anything to make us lose, and its not like hes not working hard out there. See if he played like i dunno Dagenais id say send him to Thetford-Mines, but Latendresse is working hard Watch him he is always finishing his checks and making the opposition pay the physical price.

heet_150 · Guru

wright wrote:

I don't understand the rationale that since Lats experience is limited to junior hockey, therefore he should be entitled to play on the first or second line so as to not hinder his development. Based on his exhibition performance he deserves to start ahead of one of the following: Ryder,Higgins,Kovalev,Samsanov? If he did start on one of the top two lines the expectations and pressure might be detrimental to his progress. Bringing him along more slowly on a lower line with less expectations might be better.
Playing on the fourth line is not easy,but bring some passion, committment,energy, work ethic and even if the stats are not there,you will get noticed and eventually rewarded. Don't think those attributes are only exclusively learned in the AHL. If the work ethic is not there on the fourth line, why suddenly would it come out on the second line. Injuries and slumps to players ahead of him will happen, if he is working hard on the fourth line he will be better prepared when a better opprtunity comes his way.

Very well put, Wright. If he puts the effort in, he'll get his chances. He'll have to get some chances if they leave him in Montreal and not back to the 'Q'. If Carbonneau doesn't give him any opportunities to perform, then there is no reason for him to remain on the Habs' roster.