Trading for a Centreman

ScottishHAB · Veteran Member

RE: Trading for a Centreman

plouf · Guru

ScottishHAB wrote:

I have a lot of time for Kovalev and would keep him BUT he most certainly did not step it up in the play-offs when Saku got hurt.He could have led us past the Hurricanes from 2 up but he drifted like the rest of the team.

That's mostly true too. It's a tough call, because you don't find a Kovalev-type of player that often. (But Buffalo seems to do JUST FINE without one.)

Desi · Senior Member

I'd love to see Modano on this team. I don't know what we'd have to give up for him -- hopefully not a lot since he appears to be in the doghouse in Dallas. But I think he's got a lot of good years left in him and I'd love to see him play some of those years in the bleu-blanc-rouge.

As for Kovy, I think he's sometimes a victim of his own talent when it comes to boards like ours. We see the guy make some incredible plays, score some beautiful goals and set up some others, and we expect him to do it every time he's on the ice. Unfortunately, as we all know, hockey just doesn't work that way. Yeah, I know, he's getting paid a lot of dough and for that kind of money he should walk on water and turn loaves into fishes at the same time. But he's getting that money because he can. If he doesn't get it here in MTL, then he'll get it elsewhere.

Kovy's style is not Steve Begin's. He's just not wired that way. He's not the guy whose legs are going to be going a million miles an hour every second he's on the ice. His style is more crafty -- more like a shark. Cruise around slowly, wait for opportunity, then pounce. I think this leads some people to believe that he's not trying sometimes when he's out there and I don't believe this is the case. I know for a fact that Kovy is one of the hardest working guys on the squad at practices. He practices his shooting more than anyone -- and it shows. I understand what the guy from the other board meant when he was grousing about Kovy hitting so many posts and crossbars. Kovy practices going for those sides and corners for hours on end and it gives him the confidence to shoot at them. Sometimes they go in and we're amazed and astounded. Sometimes they ping off the post. That's hockey.

I for one don't want to see Kovy go simply because he's an exciting player. I would like to see Gillette open his wallet and ante up for a good center, though, and I'd put Modano in that group.

Les Canadiens sont la

MC Girl · Guru

Desi wrote:

I'd love to see Modano on this team. I don't know what we'd have to give up for him -- hopefully not a lot since he appears to be in the doghouse in Dallas. But I think he's got a lot of good years left in him and I'd love to see him play some of those years in the bleu-blanc-rouge.

As for Kovy, I think he's sometimes a victim of his own talent when it comes to boards like ours. We see the guy make some incredible plays, score some beautiful goals and set up some others, and we expect him to do it every time he's on the ice. Unfortunately, as we all know, hockey just doesn't work that way. Yeah, I know, he's getting paid a lot of dough and for that kind of money he should walk on water and turn loaves into fishes at the same time. But he's getting that money because he can. If he doesn't get it here in MTL, then he'll get it elsewhere.

Kovy's style is not Steve Begin's. He's just not wired that way. He's not the guy whose legs are going to be going a million miles an hour every second he's on the ice. His style is more crafty -- more like a shark. Cruise around slowly, wait for opportunity, then pounce. I think this leads some people to believe that he's not trying sometimes when he's out there and I don't believe this is the case. I know for a fact that Kovy is one of the hardest working guys on the squad at practices. He practices his shooting more than anyone -- and it shows. I understand what the guy from the other board meant when he was grousing about Kovy hitting so many posts and crossbars. Kovy practices going for those sides and corners for hours on end and it gives him the confidence to shoot at them. Sometimes they go in and we're amazed and astounded. Sometimes they ping off the post. That's hockey.

I for one don't want to see Kovy go simply because he's an exciting player. I would like to see Gillette open his wallet and ante up for a good center, though, and I'd put Modano in that group.

Les Canadiens sont la

Bless you for this post. I couldn't have said it better. Truth, Truth & more truth in every paragraph.

(P.S. still tryin' to find software to make a video clip... we have one more idea of how to do it... I hope it works. Anyone have any tips on what software we should be usin' in case it doesn't work? We've tried a few different software choices we found on www.tucows.com but they haven't run successfully)

-- Edited by MC Girl at 21:34, 2006-10-08

Fatherhab · Senior Member

What about thru u-tube

MC Girl · Guru

Fatherhab wrote:

What about thru u-tube

Thanks for the help, but I think we've gotten it.

First issue was... I forgot to finalize the DVD's... Second issue.... the file type. Now we are convertin' the file from a VOB to an MPEG, (the software I downloaded didn't support this type of file) once it's converted we can run it through anyone of the programs I've downloaded already. Very time consumin', but at least we're learnin' how to do it quicker for future tasks.

wright · Veteran Member

Desi wrote:

I'd love to see Modano on this team. I don't know what we'd have to give up for him -- hopefully not a lot since he appears to be in the doghouse in Dallas. But I think he's got a lot of good years left in him and I'd love to see him play some of those years in the bleu-blanc-rouge.

As for Kovy, I think he's sometimes a victim of his own talent when it comes to boards like ours. We see the guy make some incredible plays, score some beautiful goals and set up some others, and we expect him to do it every time he's on the ice. Unfortunately, as we all know, hockey just doesn't work that way. Yeah, I know, he's getting paid a lot of dough and for that kind of money he should walk on water and turn loaves into fishes at the same time. But he's getting that money because he can. If he doesn't get it here in MTL, then he'll get it elsewhere.

Kovy's style is not Steve Begin's. He's just not wired that way. He's not the guy whose legs are going to be going a million miles an hour every second he's on the ice. His style is more crafty -- more like a shark. Cruise around slowly, wait for opportunity, then pounce. I think this leads some people to believe that he's not trying sometimes when he's out there and I don't believe this is the case. I know for a fact that Kovy is one of the hardest working guys on the squad at practices. He practices his shooting more than anyone -- and it shows. I understand what the guy from the other board meant when he was grousing about Kovy hitting so many posts and crossbars. Kovy practices going for those sides and corners for hours on end and it gives him the confidence to shoot at them. Sometimes they go in and we're amazed and astounded. Sometimes they ping off the post. That's hockey.

I for one don't want to see Kovy go simply because he's an exciting player. I would like to see Gillette open his wallet and ante up for a good center, though, and I'd put Modano in that group.

Les Canadiens sont la

Desi, that was a real well constructed post. Certainly there is a lot of truth in your comments. There have been a lot of great players that have been criticzed for not giving a 100 percent on every shift, Lemieux certainly comes to mind. When I look at Kovalev's career, his best years came when he was not perceived to be "the guy". In New York, Messier was the guy, in Pittsburgh, Lemieux. In terms of pure talent, Kovalev is head and shoulders above anyone else on the Habs. All great talents get a greater degree of latitude in terms of perceived effort, and perhaps Kovalev is hard working......at times. Not convinced it is consistent. The production versus his talent is not, and that I think is what frustrates Hab fans. Never saw Gretzky take a shift off, never ever saw Lafleur take a shift off. If Kovalev wants to calculate when he wants to make his move, fine....but lets see the production, 23 goals with his talent does just not match up....not even close. Maybe I am misguided, but I think the Habs are close to being a very good team, but they need Kovalev to be a difference maker, he is very capable of it, but during his time with the Habs it has only come periodically, he is capable of so much more.

rwp2le · Guru

It will be a while to convert. I'll cut the game & post the footage when I get up in the morning.

AB Habman · Guru

This is an interesting debate with lots of good points!

I for one would trade Kovy if it meant turning him into an elite centermen. We would be a better team for it without the frustrations of watching someone float around one game and dangle effectively the next. Modano would probably bring a better leadership and attitude with him. He had his best years with Gainey and still has good years ahead of him.

Is the debate about if Komi seen Kovy before the pass? who cares! Komi played his heart out for the full game and Kovy floated but yet had the gull to shake his head at his line mate. It's not a given Kovy would of scored or if the puck stayed on his stick anyway. Actually Komi deserved a shot, it was a good read for him to skate in for the chance.

Also with the Sammy signing, it would justify trading one of the two similer players away for a greater need. I just don't think Kovy's talents are that superior to Sammys.

ScottishHAB · Veteran Member

Modano might be the answer BUT haven't we just had tons of posts on here about BG only trading with Dallas?

MC Girl · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

... Is the debate about if Komi seen Kovy before the pass? who cares! Komi played his heart out for the full game and Kovy floated but yet had the gull to shake his head at his line mate. It's not a given Kovy would of scored or if the puck stayed on his stick anyway. Actually Komi deserved a shot, it was a good read for him to skate in for the chance.

Also with the Sammy signing, it would justify trading one of the two similer players away for a greater need. I just don't think Kovy's talents are that superior to Sammys.

To put it bluntly...... I CARE!!!!

I'm tired of a certain someone usin' lies to support their points. It happens all the time & I just so happen to have the video evidence & will post it to finally PROVE THE LIAR WRONG. I'm tired of the "I'll make up whatever story I want & I'll pass it off as truth, to try & make my point." & "Ooooo, Komi didn't see him.... Waaaah...." Yeah whatever!

I know.... why doesn't everyone on the team break up a perfect set up & then blame Kovy for "not gettin' the job done again & again & again", then we can trade him 'cause he isn't gettin' any points.

Still... I'll say it again, Kovy played this way before he got here & Gainey bought him knowin' full well what his play is like.... & was interested in him before the thought of Kovy bein' traded was even an option, & why did he buy him???? BECAUSE HE'S THE BEST WE HAVE & THE BEST WE CAN GET. I will take a floater that scores the most on the team rather than another player WHO CAN'T. Let's take Kovy out of the equation.... who else we got???? who else could we get???? NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY IN MONTREAL!!!!! Shanny signed for less money than Montreal was offerin'.... why??? Well I'm sure the money issue... but I'm also sure the LOUD MOUTHED fans that run their star players out of town with all this whiney BS. We've had two games played for Christ sake!!!! & if you are countin' the preseason... Kovy got-r-done. People just need to quit their pissin' & moanin'. When Kovy PROVES YOU WRONG.... what will my satisfaction be? ABSOLUTE SILENCE from certain posters, 'cause we all know they won't say "good for Kovy, atta boy" why?, 'cause Kovy insulted their friend a while back, a friend who made no mistakes ever! You get fired for bein' perfect.... uhhh huuhh.

& your point about Sammy????? He's played 2 games & has 0 points on the board. Hmmmm I thought the way you win season's is by puttin' points on the board... so let's trade the player who does that 'cause we got a player that doesn't!!!!"

Whadda good idea

-- Edited by MC Girl at 07:43, 2006-10-09

ScottishHAB · Veteran Member

Maybe we should all calm down!

The only reason Kovalev is being mentioned here is that it's obvious he's the only trade bait we might have BECAUSE he is the best we've got at present.BUT I don't think he should be going anywhere.

MC Girl · Guru

ScottishHAB wrote:

Maybe we should all calm down!

The only reason Kovalev is being mentioned here is that it's obvious he's the only trade bait we might have BECAUSE he is the best we've got at present.BUT I don't think he should be going anywhere.

I agree ScottishHAB, you're right.

I let a certain poster get on my last nerve. Their high & mighty "I know everything about everything" attitude is a hard pill to swallow anymore, especially when they're usin' lies & ingorance as fact just to bag on a guy 'cause he didn't like his "so called" friend. (which is why I got so heated) ... point is Kovy's our best.... we get rid of him... I think we can kiss our season goodbye.

I'm bettin' Kovy will pull it together, it's a new season... it's only game 2... old habits die hard... he's got new linesmates... give them a chance to mesh well. 2 games in is just not enough to judge.... that is.... unless you have a grudge you're holdin' onto. I watch & record every single game from start to finish (then sometimes play it again to see if I've missed anything) when I defend something.... it's based on fact, not an opinion stated as fact.

-- Edited by MC Girl at 08:23, 2006-10-09

Habtastic · Guru

I mentioned in an earlier post that Kovalev will mostly like be traded by the deadline and I stand by that. He was a great pick-up at the time, but I think his time here is done, mainly because we have so much depth on the wing (we can replace him with Kostitsyn) and we are in serious need of a top-line center. Modano sounds good to me, but does Dallas need a winger? Kovy has all the talent in the world, but we have youngsters ready to step-up on the wing, so let's take care of our most pressing need.

Habtastic

P.S. Sorry if this has all been said, but I just got the net back after 3 days and am posting in between teaching night classes. :) I needed a fix...

Saku11 · Senior Member

if i see a pro kovalev post here from any of you who have simply thrashed the guy for absolutely nothing.....I Will call you out!

2 games.....2 points.....if he puts up 82 points...iam happy.

Take those comments somewhere else...maybe a leafs board.

Thats yellow....just like gainey said it about fans booing Brisebois....Yellow fans!!!

Fatherhab · Senior Member

Grow up

wright · Veteran Member

Saku11 wrote:

if i see a pro kovalev post here from any of you who have simply thrashed the guy for absolutely nothing.....I Will call you out!

2 games.....2 points.....if he puts up 82 points...iam happy.

Take those comments somewhere else...maybe a leafs board.

Thats yellow....just like gainey said it about fans booing Brisebois....Yellow fans!!!

Hey Saku 11, most of the criticism levelled at Kovalev is about his inconsistent work ethic, certainly not his talent. His skill set is amazing. The performance in terms of production over his entire career does not match up with the talent level. At the end of last seasons playoffs, Bob Gainey publicly announced his dissatisfaction with Kovalev's performance in the playoffs. If you feel that Kovalev shows up game in game out and puts his best efforts forward, then you and i will have to agree to disagree on that one.

The criticism of Kovalev is not based just on two games this season, it is based on his performance through out his career. Whether Kovalev was ticked off with Komi in game one is fine, but as a leader of the team do not think it is appropriate to show up a young player like he did on the ice, there is abetter way to deal with that. For the record, Kovalev is a minus 3 to start the year, and thus far that line has awhole as yet has not performed to expectations. It is only two games, all that is required is for Kovalev to be the player he is capable of on a nightly performance, as a fan I want to see the work ethic, and I will be the first to recognize it. Your comment about yellow fans, to me went way beyond the line.....

AB Habman · Guru

Saku11 wrote:

if i see a pro kovalev post here from any of you who have simply thrashed the guy for absolutely nothing.....I Will call you out!

2 games.....2 points.....if he puts up 82 points...iam happy.

Take those comments somewhere else...maybe a leafs board.

Thats yellow....just like gainey said it about fans booing Brisebois....Yellow fans!!!

barry33 · Guru

Final points on Kovalev. I could care less what video you show me. He has NO RIGHT to criticize and yell at a young player on his own team, irregardless. Do you ever see Koivu criticising his players? Uhmm..no. If Kovalev made 1/5th the effort night in and night out and had half the attitude that Koivu does, he would score 50. And since when did this board come to the point where you are not allowed to express your opinion if it does not agree with others? Give me a huge and colossal break. If you do not like the "negatives" some people express, do not read them. But don;t come on here all high and mighty and telling us we are like leafs fans.

MC Girl · Guru

barry33 wrote:

Final points on Kovalev. I could care less what video you show me. He has NO RIGHT to criticize and yell at a young player on his own team, irregardless. Do you ever see Koivu criticising his players? Uhmm..no. If Kovalev made 1/5th the effort night in and night out and had half the attitude that Koivu does, he would score 50. And since when did this board come to the point where you are not allowed to express your opinion if it does not agree with others? Give me a huge and colossal break. If you do not like the "negatives" some people express, do not read them. But don;t come on here all high and mighty and telling us we are like leafs fans.

There you go again makin' sh!t up.... when did he yell at a younger player???????? He shook his head YES... but you make crap up to make your points sound better & it's gotten old.

Geee... ring ring... kettle... you're black.... who on here acts more high & mighty then Barry... ummm no one... not even me. (I'd post the PM's I've received on the topic but will not unless those posters ok it) ...... .& I wasn't pissed 'til you mocked me "Lord Barry"..... if people don't agree with you... THE WORLD MUST END!!!!!

Get over it already. It's not important!!!!! Like wind whistlin' through the trees.....

P.S. I mentioned nothing of Leafs fans... & yet, you wrote it to me.....

P.S.S. Koivu gives 100% all the time?.... maybe we should go back to last season & pull up some old threads on the topic to refresh your memory. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy... but to compare the 2 & say one gives 100% effort, 100% of the time.... how soon we forget.

-- Edited by MC Girl at 15:06, 2006-10-09

barry33 · Guru

MC Girl wrote:

barry33 wrote:

Final points on Kovalev. I could care less what video you show me. He has NO RIGHT to criticize and yell at a young player on his own team, irregardless. Do you ever see Koivu criticising his players? Uhmm..no. If Kovalev made 1/5th the effort night in and night out and had half the attitude that Koivu does, he would score 50. And since when did this board come to the point where you are not allowed to express your opinion if it does not agree with others? Give me a huge and colossal break. If you do not like the "negatives" some people express, do not read them. But don;t come on here all high and mighty and telling us we are like leafs fans.

There you go again makin' sh!t up.... when did he yell at a younger player???????? He shook his head YES... but you make crap up to make your points sound better & it's gotten old.

Geee... ring ring... kettle... you're black.... who on here acts more high & mighty then Barry... ummm no one... not even me. (I'd post the PM's I've received on the topic but will not unless those posters ok it) ...... .& I wasn't pissed 'til you mocked me "Lord Barry"..... if people don't agree with you... THE WORLD MUST END!!!!!

Get over it already. It's not important!!!!! Like wind whistlin' through the trees.....

P.S. I mentioned nothing of Leafs fans... & yet, you wrote it to me.....

P.S.S. Koivu gives 100% all the time?.... maybe we should go back to last season & pull up some old threads on the topic to refresh your memory. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy... but to compare the 2 & say one gives 100% effort, 100% of the time.... how soon we forget.

-- Edited by MC Girl at 15:06, 2006-10-09

Uhmm..no..my comments regarding the leafs fans was referring to Saku 11, not yourself. I really do not think I come on here as all high and mighty but you are welcome to your opinion. I feel that I allow everyone to express their opinion and really am not critical of anyone. But all of a sudden you make this a personal issue?!?? What is that about? At any rate I could care less and if you have all these private messages ****ting on me then fine..see ya later.

I would welcome anyones thoughts on how I post. I have an opinion like anyone else on here. But really, life is too short to bother with this. It is a website for GODS sake. Not life.

MC Girl · Guru

barry33 wrote:

Uhmm..no..my comments regarding the leafs fans was referring to Saku 11, not yourself. I really do not think I come on here as all high and mighty but you are welcome to your opinion. I feel that I allow everyone to express their opinion and really am not critical of anyone. But all of a sudden you make this a personal issue?!?? What is that about? At any rate I could care less and if you have all these private messages ****ting on me then fine..see ya later.

I would welcome anyones thoughts on how I post. I have an opinion like anyone else on here. But really, life is too short to bother with this. It is a website for GODS sake. Not life.

Couldn't agree more Mr. Barry....

& you might have meant it for Saku 11... but you only use the word "you" in your post & most of it was meant for me. When you include others issues in a post meant for me... I assume you got things wrong.

plouf · Guru

It's one thing to dislike someone's opinion and express irritation at others' opinions, but I think the attack on Barry is going way over the top here. It's not going to help the board if people are afraid to disagree with someone because they will flip out. Barry is a much loved and knowledgeable poster here. I've disagreed with him a lot, and I've even accused of the CJ bias in the past, but I value his contribution here more than pretty much anybody.

There is no way it's worth making it personal because Barry isn't happy with one player. It's not like he's expressing a wild and crazy opinion. A lot of people agree that Kovalev can be frustrating, and not just Habs fans. Ask Rangers fans, for example.

Let's all just be friends?

MC Girl · Guru

plouf wrote:

It's one thing to dislike someone's opinion and express irritation at others' opinions, but I think the attack on Barry is going way over the top here. It's not going to help the board if people are afraid to disagree with someone because they will flip out. Barry is a much loved and knowledgeable poster here. I've disagreed with him a lot, and I've even accused of the CJ bias in the past, but I value his contribution here more than pretty much anybody.

There is no way it's worth making it personal because Barry isn't happy with one player. It's not like he's expressing a wild and crazy opinion. A lot of people agree that Kovalev can be frustrating, and not just Habs fans. Ask Rangers fans, for example.

Let's all just be friends?

Again... I agree... but when he mocked me & made me feel like crap... I went on a tirade. I have a habit of dishin' out what people dish to me 10 fold.

He's a knowledgable guy who put me down.... in return, I did the same. I'm not sayin' I was right, but I must stick up for myself when I feel I'm bein' wronged.

-- Edited by MC Girl at 16:39, 2006-10-09

plouf · Guru

Ok MC, I should probably not pick sides.

Anyway, I don't really care about the details. I just want everybody to be friends and Barry to stay.

This is a GREAT board. (For those who have been to others you know what I mean) And you are both key personalities and commentators.

Hey, speaking of key, where IS brooklynhabfan?

Nil d · Guru

plouf wrote:

Anyway, I don't really care about the details. I just want everybody to be friends and Barry to stay.

This is a GREAT board. (For those who have been to others you know what I mean) And you are both key personalities and commentators.

As always, plouf, your posts are succinct and spot-on!

Desi · Senior Member

Yeah, Brookie. Where are you????

Les Canadiens sont la

MC Girl · Guru

I'm emailin' him to ask.

habscsi · Member

WOW!!! All this over who we gonna trade for to get a centre!

Well as for kovy being gone i vote No way!!! Just his mere presence frees up room and favorable match ups for the Koivu line!

Plus contrary to popular opinion i dont think we are in the market for a game breaking centre unless we got a lot of salary goin the other way! Which i dont think is favorable cause as we learned in the off season most trade talk brings up one of two names Ryder or Higgins+a prospect or D man + a pick. so most likely wed be looking at trading ryder+souray+(koist,grab or chip)+ just to give up enough cap room for a 5 mil/yr centre heck, who we getting for that?

DEFENSE is where we need to improve with chip and grab in hamilton and possibly a year away i say we sure up a solid D, Goalies look good shape, maybe one more pure finisher winger with the cap room saved by chip and grab making this team and then finally kovy wont have to shake his head at all the missed chances and failure to put teams away we have been plagued with.

So my vote is lets deal say a Bonk and souray + pick for top D man + pick ,chip Plays some 4th line end of this year and prepare him for his future role on this team.Seems Koivu can be a productive #1 centre as long as our 2 and 3 lines are legit nhl lines and with kovy sammy perez johnson as trigger men I think we can develop a legit #2 centre out of either pleks, Chip or Grab. Not to mention a pretty darn good 4th line with begin and Lats who can both step into the top 9 with ease along with kosti! So I say lets get Sure and mobile on D and roll 4 lines a la buffalo and I think we'll be just fine for this year and for a few to come!!

UNLESS of course you guys are still hell bent on dumping Koivu and Kovy the id say whats the odds of getting a couple kids named alexander and sidney!!!!LOL

rwp2le · Guru

barry33 wrote:

It is nothing personal, simply addressing a need. All I want is for the guy to show that he wants to play here. He has not. And yes it is only 2 games in but he is simply picking up here he left off last season. Yes he lead theteam in scoring last year. But there were several players on the team that had more goals than he did (Ryder for one). With the talent that Kovy has, he needs to hang is head in shame that a boy from Bona Vista Nefoundland who was playing in the east coast leage a coupel years ago...outscores him

Several? Name the other? I know about Ryder, but I can't find anyone else who scored more goals than him. And how could anyone in the league be ashamed that Ryder scored more goals than him. I guess Saku should be totally ashamed, Ryder, Kovalev, and Higgins scored more than him. Also, Mr. Freeskate himself, Jan Bulis scored more than him. OMG if I were Koviu and Kovalev, I would barry me heads in the sand and not come out ever, ever again. Come on man.