We probably didn't need...

AB Habman · Guru

We probably didn't need...

habsforeverfan · Veteran Member

AB Habman wrote:

With the young talent we have and depth on wing, we probably didn't need to sign Sammy. We needed a center or defensmen. I guess I get a little sad for the kids at this time of year where they're busting their butt for one spot. It may of been better served to hold on to the 3.5 mil and wait for a trade of a quality center or d-man. I guess though, Gainey felt the pressure to sign a big name free agent. Of course I'm speaking as an after thought because the kids are battling it out. We wouldn't of lost much on wing if we kept Kostitsyn, Letendresse and Perez going with ice time and no Sammy. As I stated before, Sammy may end up to be another inconsistent player that takes games off that we don't need( I hope not). If that's the case, I'd rather see a youngster make a fraction of money with more heart and determination.

I can't wait to see Kostitsyn make the team. This kid has passion for the habs as he stated on his draft day. He said that he wanted to prove everyone wrong for thinking that his epilipsy would be a problem. He also said that he was very grateful to the Canadiens for believing in him by picking him 10th. The Canadiens medical team also found the right medication to help him control his condition. I hope that his sentiment for the Canadens run as deep as Koivu and Begin's.

Nil d · Guru

habsforeverfan wrote:

I can't wait to see Kostitsyn make the team. This kid has passion for the habs as he stated on his draft day. He said that he wanted to prove everyone wrong for thinking that his epilipsy would be a problem. He also said that he was very grateful to the Canadiens for believing in him by picking him 10th. The Canadiens medical team also found the right medication to help him control his condition. I hope that his sentiment for the Canadens run as deep as Koivu and Begin's.

Kostytsyn was the one player who walked past everyone on the way from the school to the rink last night, with his head down and not a peep at anyone. He was either unfriendly or in some sort of a zone. Whatever it was, he played a very good game and seemed to fit in well with RIbeiro.

plouf · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

With the young talent we have and depth on wing, we probably didn't need to sign Sammy. We needed a center or defensmen. I guess I get a little sad for the kids at this time of year where they're busting their butt for one spot. It may of been better served to hold on to the 3.5 mil and wait for a trade of a quality center or d-man. I guess though, Gainey felt the pressure to sign a big name free agent. Of course I'm speaking as an after thought because the kids are battling it out. We wouldn't of lost much on wing if we kept Kostitsyn, Letendresse and Perez going with ice time and no Sammy. As I stated before, Sammy may end up to be another inconsistent player that takes games off that we don't need( I hope not). If that's the case, I'd rather see a youngster make a fraction of money with more heart and determination.

I have to agree with you here AB. Not that I think Samsonov is a bad player; I thought the Bruins were crazy to part with him so easily. But he's just not what we need right now. Believe me, he'll pick it up once the season starts. But where does this leave a developing talent like Kostitsyn or Latendresse when what we need is a centre or top-2 defenseman?

barry33 · Guru

plouf wrote:

AB Habman wrote:

With the young talent we have and depth on wing, we probably didn't need to sign Sammy. We needed a center or defensmen. I guess I get a little sad for the kids at this time of year where they're busting their butt for one spot. It may of been better served to hold on to the 3.5 mil and wait for a trade of a quality center or d-man. I guess though, Gainey felt the pressure to sign a big name free agent. Of course I'm speaking as an after thought because the kids are battling it out. We wouldn't of lost much on wing if we kept Kostitsyn, Letendresse and Perez going with ice time and no Sammy. As I stated before, Sammy may end up to be another inconsistent player that takes games off that we don't need( I hope not). If that's the case, I'd rather see a youngster make a fraction of money with more heart and determination.

I have to agree with you here AB. Not that I think Samsonov is a bad player; I thought the Bruins were crazy to part with him so easily. But he's just not what we need right now. Believe me, he'll pick it up once the season starts. But where does this leave a developing talent like Kostitsyn or Latendresse when what we need is a centre or top-2 defenseman?

As I said when we signed Samsonov, he was the "consolation prize". He was way down Gainey's radar when the free agent season began. Gainey was unable to address the true needs (center and stud dman) for reasons that have been well documented here, so signed Samsonov so that he would not be shut out.

wright · Veteran Member

plouf wrote:

AB Habman wrote:

With the young talent we have and depth on wing, we probably didn't need to sign Sammy. We needed a center or defensmen. I guess I get a little sad for the kids at this time of year where they're busting their butt for one spot. It may of been better served to hold on to the 3.5 mil and wait for a trade of a quality center or d-man. I guess though, Gainey felt the pressure to sign a big name free agent. Of course I'm speaking as an after thought because the kids are battling it out. We wouldn't of lost much on wing if we kept Kostitsyn, Letendresse and Perez going with ice time and no Sammy. As I stated before, Sammy may end up to be another inconsistent player that takes games off that we don't need( I hope not). If that's the case, I'd rather see a youngster make a fraction of money with more heart and determination.

I have to agree with you here AB. Not that I think Samsonov is a bad player; I thought the Bruins were crazy to part with him so easily. But he's just not what we need right now. Believe me, he'll pick it up once the season starts. But where does this leave a developing talent like Kostitsyn or Latendresse when what we need is a centre or top-2 defenseman?

Agree. Since the start of the offseason I felt strongly that the Habs should have signed a quality dman to complement Markov. Its been stated many times but it is true, the Habs were a team far below 500 record when Markov (who has a history of back problems) was out of the lineup, the team simply has no one else that can do all the things Markov can from the blueline. There were an abundance of better than average dmen with good offensive skills that were free agents this past season, and yet Gainey seemingly did not pursue any of them. With Markov,Rivet and Souray all becoming free agents at the end of this season, and apparently the clubs best prospects on defence, O"Bryne and Emelin probably a couple of years away, an already thin defence could become even more of a liability next season.

Can't fault Gainey for not addressing the center position in terms of free agency, really there was only Savard and Arnott that were available, and by all accounts Gainey did go after Arnott but could not close the deal. Once he lost out on Shanahan, I guess he felt that Samsanov could at least offer some scoring abilities, and to that end Sammy should help. Samsanov probably still needs to get acclimatized to playing with new players and it may take him a little time to get going, his track record suggests that he should help. If Lantendresse and Kotistsyn are the real deals, perhaps it will enable Gainey to make a deal from strength in terms of offering one of the teams potentially good young forwards for a dman, or a center during the year.

plouf · Guru

I know a lot of people will suggest using Perez. as trade bait. That would be a huge mistake in my opinion. He has big upside. I would suggest ditching Aaron Downey if room needs to be made, and standing pat with the wingers we have, since depth is always nice:

Kovalev, Samsonov, Latendresse, Kostitsyn, Perezhogin, Johnson, Begin, Ryder, Higgins, Murray.

Assuming one of those guys get converted to centre (Higgins or Murray), that is a really good-looking group.

Now...at centre, and defense.......

superhab · Guru

Nil d wrote:

Kostytsyn was the one player who walked past everyone on the way from the school to the rink last night, with his head down and not a peep at anyone. He was either unfriendly or in some sort of a zone. Whatever it was, he played a very good game and seemed to fit in well with RIbeiro.

I've met Kostitsyn a number of times in Hamilton. He is a very nice guy but doesn't speak English very well at all. Which is probobly why he didn't seem as friendly when walking down the streets.

Oh and the reason the Canadiens didn't dress some of their Vets was due to the alleged safety issue that before the game was being talked about quite a bit.

*Finally post number 50o

-- Edited by superhab at 10:39, 2006-09-26

Mad Habber · Member

Well damn if you do, damn if you don't. It was no secret that Gainey was looking at Arnott, but he signed elsewhere. Every July 1, the fans, the media keep crying for Gainey to sign someone good. The one player we could of used of front, wasn't available anymore and the only other centre cabable of centering the top two lines was Savard. I'm glad we passed on that option. So Gainey went down the list and tried with others. As for defensemen, I think they all got overpaid, anyone worthwhile anyways, even some worth sqat (Hal Gill).

In the end Gainey got the best player still left available. You can't deny Samsonov's talent. You can question his work ethic at times, and you can question whether he was a good fit for this team. But the man has talent and can put up points. Had Dumont been available at the time of the signing, I think that Gainey would taken that route instead, but he was not available and time was running short on Samsonov.

Besides, how much crying and belly aching would we have had to endure had Gainey not signed anyone at all.

plouf · Guru

I like Samsonov. He's an underrated player - gets back and helps out on defense, as well as intimidating other teams with his skill and skating. Johnson also kills penalties along with the offense. Gainey's no fool. But I still have my doubts about the decision to get both of them, with all these young wingers coming up and the Habs already looking solid at that position.

The solution might be to turn Higgins back into a centre?

barry33 · Guru

plouf wrote:

I like Samsonov. He's an underrated player - gets back and helps out on defense, as well as intimidating other teams with his skill and skating. Johnson also kills penalties along with the offense. Gainey's no fool. But I still have my doubts about the decision to get both of them, with all these young wingers coming up and the Habs already looking solid at that position.

The solution might be to turn Higgins back into a centre?

I agree. I would have taken Samsonov in the hopes that he will add speed and kick Kovalev into gear. But to me, Johnson is just more of the same of what we already have.

Nil d · Guru

superhab wrote:

Nil d wrote:

Kostytsyn was the one player who walked past everyone on the way from the school to the rink last night, with his head down and not a peep at anyone. He was either unfriendly or in some sort of a zone. Whatever it was, he played a very good game and seemed to fit in well with RIbeiro.

Oh and the reason the Canadiens didn't dress some of their Vets was due to the alleged safety issue that before the game was being talked about quite a bit.

*Finally post number 50o

-- Edited by superhab at 10:39, 2006-09-26

What safety issue? And why would this only be relevant to the Habs?

Congrats on #500, BTW!

Habtastic · Guru

Grats on 500 Spidey! And from what I have read, Kostitsyn still needs another AHL season to get used to NA style and language and I guess Gainey didn't feel Perez was ready for the next step. I wouldn't be surprised if Perez and Ribs are packaged for a center upgrade... maybe a Brendan Morrison? 'Nucks need some cap space and we have some room.

Habtastic

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

Habtastic wrote:

Grats on 500 Spidey! And from what I have read, Kostitsyn still needs another AHL season to get used to NA style and language and I guess Gainey didn't feel Perez was ready for the next step. I wouldn't be surprised if Perez and Ribs are packaged for a center upgrade... maybe a Brendan Morrison? 'Nucks need some cap space and we have some room.

Habtastic

Wouldn't getting Morrison be wonderful? I can't imagine for one second that Vancouver would do that, making them a one line team, but if they would, wow. The fact for us now is that Ribeiro has very little trade value since he had a bad season last year, and has shown little this preseason. I personally think he will snap out of it, but until he does, the most we will get for him is a 4th round pick like what we gave for Johnson. Perez will command a little more, but both these players will seem more attractive to a lower tier team looking for a setup man for a young guy (Ribs) and a cheap player with good upside (Perez). Better teams might be interested in Perez, but probably not Ribs until he shows his attitude is improving, but if he does that, then we won't want to trade him.

Mad Habber · Member

Man, who wants to make a bet Vancouver would be all over that trade. A lot of fans would love to get rid of Morrison. Even though he has played on the first line in Van for the past few years does not make him a true 1st line center. His numbers are not that glorious for a guy who played between Naslund and Bertuzzi. I would venture to guess that his numbers wouldn't be any better than Ribs in Mtl on the second line. And we get to through in Perez. I like the kids in Mtl. Perez, can't be demoted without going through waivers, and another team will snatch him up in a hurry. THe guy hasn't had a real chance here. 3-4 minutes a game on the fourth line for Julien is not a real chance. Kost needs to play also. I'd love to see him in Mtl for the season, but if the Habs decide to keep only 13 forwards or give the 14th spot to someone else, at least he can go down to Hamilton without going through waivers. Lats, I am also anxious to see in Mtl. Physically, he can handle it. He can also handle the offensive side of the game. What I'm not so certain that he can handle is defensive positioning in his own zone, and being forced to watch the game for either the bench or the stands, when things are not going so well. Plus we all know that the french media will be all over the team if Lats sits a little too long. Lats handled being demoted last year very poorly. He should of went down and proved to the Habs that they made a mistake sending him back to the Q, but that didn't happen.

superhab · Guru

Nil d wrote:

superhab wrote:

Nil d wrote:

Kostytsyn was the one player who walked past everyone on the way from the school to the rink last night, with his head down and not a peep at anyone. He was either unfriendly or in some sort of a zone. Whatever it was, he played a very good game and seemed to fit in well with RIbeiro.

Oh and the reason the Canadiens didn't dress some of their Vets was due to the alleged safety issue that before the game was being talked about quite a bit.

*Finally post number 50o

-- Edited by superhab at 10:39, 2006-09-26

What safety issue? And why would this only be relevant to the Habs?

Congrats on #500, BTW!

You probably know better than me but before the game i heard a lot of talk about there being a solid wall behind one of the nets which gave the board there no give. I even heard Bettmen had to ask both teams to be very careful in that area. And the Sens didnt dress a couple of their top guns, like Alfredsson.

Nil d · Guru

superhab wrote:

Oh and the reason the Canadiens didn't dress some of their Vets was due to the alleged safety issue that before the game was being talked about quite a bit.

*Finally post number 50o

-- Edited by superhab at 10:39, 2006-09-26

What safety issue? And why would this only be relevant to the Habs?

Congrats on #500, BTW!

You probably know better than me but before the game i heard a lot of talk about there being a solid wall behind one of the nets which gave the board there no give. I even heard Bettmen had to ask both teams to be very careful in that area. And the Sens didnt dress a couple of their top guns, like Alfredsson.

OK, now I see what you mean. Yes, there was a solid wall behind the net. Is this a safety issue? I don't know - is 3/4 " plywood more dangerous than plexiglass? And why were the Habs bothered but not the Senators? And what about the thousands of players who have played there and in similar rinks all over the country?

The part I found strange was that there was only seating in one end zone (the one without the solid wall), but the scoreboard was high on the wall behind the seats in that end zone. I was sitting there and had to turn 180 degrees and stand up to see over people's heads to see the scoreboard! Why not put the clock on the solid wall at the other end where everyone can see it?

superhab · Guru

Nil d wrote:

OK, now I see what you mean. Yes, there was a solid wall behind the net. Is this a safety issue? I don't know - is 3/4 " plywood more dangerous than plexiglass? And why were the Habs bothered but not the Senators? And what about the thousands of players who have played there and in similar rinks all over the country?

The part I found strange was that there was only seating in one end zone (the one without the solid wall), but the scoreboard was high on the wall behind the seats in that end zone. I was sitting there and had to turn 180 degrees and stand up to see over people's heads to see the scoreboard! Why not put the clock on the solid wall at the other end where everyone can see it?

The problem is the give, when a player gets hit normally the boards move which is why players dont usually get hurt when hit. With this solid wall there was no give and if a player was hit there they would be crushed. And of course this is all speculative on my part i don't really know why they didnt dress their "top" player. Maybe they needed a rest? Maybe it was right before the recent set of cuts we just saw and it was just to make sure they wouldn't make a big mistake. Who knows the truth.

Nil d · Guru

superhab wrote:

i don't really know why they didnt dress their "top" player. Maybe they needed a rest? Maybe it was right before the recent set of cuts we just saw and it was just to make sure they wouldn't make a big mistake. Who knows the truth.

I don't know about not dressing them, but I know the Sens were in the Maritimes for 3 or 4 games, so the whole team was in Truro. Their stars not dressed were sitting in the stands right behind me. The Habs, on the other hand, flew in then back home again, so the stars not dressed weren't even on the flight. As a result, I didn't get to see Koivu, Kovalev, Rivet, Souray, Komisarek, Huet, etc. in their civilian clothes. They were still in Montreal. This was my only disappointment for the whole evening.

Fatherhab · Senior Member

I know for fact that Alfredson, and Redden are both injured(groin). Volchenkov is out with a broken finger I believe as well as the new defenseman they obtained from LA is also injured. Alfredson will be back for tomorrow's game in Ottawa.

-- Edited by Fatherhab at 19:52, 2006-09-27

plouf · Guru

Mad Habber wrote:

Man, who wants to make a bet Vancouver would be all over that trade. A lot of fans would love to get rid of Morrison. Even though he has played on the first line in Van for the past few years does not make him a true 1st line center. His numbers are not that glorious for a guy who played between Naslund and Bertuzzi. I would venture to guess that his numbers wouldn't be any better than Ribs in Mtl on the second line. And we get to through in Perez. I like the kids in Mtl. Perez, can't be demoted without going through waivers, and another team will snatch him up in a hurry. THe guy hasn't had a real chance here. 3-4 minutes a game on the fourth line for Julien is not a real chance. Kost needs to play also. I'd love to see him in Mtl for the season, but if the Habs decide to keep only 13 forwards or give the 14th spot to someone else, at least he can go down to Hamilton without going through waivers. Lats, I am also anxious to see in Mtl. Physically, he can handle it. He can also handle the offensive side of the game. What I'm not so certain that he can handle is defensive positioning in his own zone, and being forced to watch the game for either the bench or the stands, when things are not going so well. Plus we all know that the french media will be all over the team if Lats sits a little too long. Lats handled being demoted last year very poorly. He should of went down and proved to the Habs that they made a mistake sending him back to the Q, but that didn't happen.

Good points. Latendresse has shown a lot of desire on the ice, but off ice he's still a kid. He has a lot to learn (not his fault, he's young) about attitude and keeping his mouth shut until he's proven himself, and I'm worried about the effect of the media on his play. Let's hope Carbonneau, Koivu, Rivet, Begin, etc... are working hard to keep this guy's head in the right zone.

barry33 · Guru

plouf wrote:

Mad Habber wrote:

Man, who wants to make a bet Vancouver would be all over that trade. A lot of fans would love to get rid of Morrison. Even though he has played on the first line in Van for the past few years does not make him a true 1st line center. His numbers are not that glorious for a guy who played between Naslund and Bertuzzi. I would venture to guess that his numbers wouldn't be any better than Ribs in Mtl on the second line. And we get to through in Perez. I like the kids in Mtl. Perez, can't be demoted without going through waivers, and another team will snatch him up in a hurry. THe guy hasn't had a real chance here. 3-4 minutes a game on the fourth line for Julien is not a real chance. Kost needs to play also. I'd love to see him in Mtl for the season, but if the Habs decide to keep only 13 forwards or give the 14th spot to someone else, at least he can go down to Hamilton without going through waivers. Lats, I am also anxious to see in Mtl. Physically, he can handle it. He can also handle the offensive side of the game. What I'm not so certain that he can handle is defensive positioning in his own zone, and being forced to watch the game for either the bench or the stands, when things are not going so well. Plus we all know that the french media will be all over the team if Lats sits a little too long. Lats handled being demoted last year very poorly. He should of went down and proved to the Habs that they made a mistake sending him back to the Q, but that didn't happen.

Good points. Latendresse has shown a lot of desire on the ice, but off ice he's still a kid. He has a lot to learn (not his fault, he's young) about attitude and keeping his mouth shut until he's proven himself, and I'm worried about the effect of the media on his play. Let's hope Carbonneau, Koivu, Rivet, Begin, etc... are working hard to keep this guy's head in the right zone.

Plouf- for what it is worth I hear that his attitude has changed a great deal since last year. He reported to camp in awesome shape and has gone on record as saying if he gets sent down to Junior he will just work that much harder. Maybe last year was a blessing in disguise and a wake up call for him. To me, if Saku Koivu says the kid is ready,. that is good enough for moi.

hockeyman · Senior Member

Give the new guy some time. A handful of exhibition games does not make the player. Samsonov is learning a new system and getting used to his teammates. To say he is a waste of money is absurd. Give him some time to acclimatize before you criticize. No wonder no big names want to sign here.

barry33 · Guru

hockeyman wrote:

Give the new guy some time. A handful of exhibition games does not make the player. Samsonov is learning a new system and getting used to his teammates. To say he is a waste of money is absurd. Give him some time to acclimatize before you criticize. No wonder no big names want to sign here.

hockeyman- I understand that habs fans are probably pretty demanding. But to be fair, I decided to spend my lunch hour today surfing some other teams' fans sites (Oilers, Flames, Laffs, Bruins). They are pretty hard on their players and management as well. In fact, I would say that the posts I read on the Leafs and Oilers sites were far more critical than anything I have read on here. I guess my point is that Montreal gets a worse rep than it deserves.