Anyone else think this Hab off-season has been classic ‘Ballardian’?

Ando · Guru

Anyone else think this Hab off-season has been classic ‘Ballardian’?

barry33 · Guru

Ando wrote:

From Arnott foregoing more money to go play in that Mecca of hockey known as Nashville, right on down to turning the collective cold shoulder to J.P. Dumont (who would have taken less money to become a Hab).

No upgrade to the defense…at all…NOTHING…not one single player!

The flipping of one spotty and inconsistent offensive player (Zed) for another (Sammy) as well as losing one utility player (Bulis) for another (Johnson).

…explain the part one more time where this team is getting a raw deal from those in the media who believe that this team is not considered playoff material?!?!?!?

And-O- as much as I hate to agree with you I am. We have done nothing to address our most glaring holes..center and a stud dman. Samsonov is inconsistent and last time I checked, not a center. But I do not believe that Gainey did not try to fill these holes..he just couldn't. So once again we are left hoping that Ribs can play center, Koivu can stay healthy, and Souray will stop looking like a pylon on a road course. The positive is that our young players will continue to improve and develop. But that is a long term fix, not short term. I look for a team that will be marginally better than last year. The unfortunate aspect of that is that there are teams in the east who are not marginally better, they are significantly better.,

chelii chilli · Member

Surely, Gainey and friends have a plan set up here. They obviously tried to get who they could via UFA but Arnott and Elias went elsewhere through no fault of the Habs. We should be happy that we did not overpay and offer Chara type money to any of the remaining guys who were left. (Do you really think that Savard was worth the 5 mill he got?)

As a Habs fan, I would be more welcome to seeing developing players that learn our system rather than paying out large money/ long contracts to players who are past their prime and offer no more than 2-3 years of production.

macneil · Guru

well if it isnt the glass have empty twins , and-barry , are you sure you guys are hab fans , tell me who montreal should have signed that they didnt try to , they reportedly tried for shanny, arnott, elias , some of the d that were available were way overpayed , im glad we didnt offer mckee, 4 mil, or mitchel 3mil, kubina 5 mil,we overpaid for boulion but at least it was under 2 mil. as for dumont , i cant believe buffalo didnt match the offer by nashville and bet they would have matched if we offerd him that . are we better than last year , yes , are we cup contenters , not yet but who knows with the way things played out last year for certain teams .

AB Habman · Guru

Ando wrote:

From Arnott foregoing more money to go play in that Mecca of hockey known as Nashville, right on down to turning the collective cold shoulder to J.P. Dumont (who would have taken less money to become a Hab).

No upgrade to the defense…at all…NOTHING…not one single player!

The flipping of one spotty and inconsistent offensive player (Zed) for another (Sammy) as well as losing one utility player (Bulis) for another (Johnson).

…explain the part one more time where this team is getting a raw deal from those in the media who believe that this team is not considered playoff material?!?!?!?

Sounds like And-o is agreeing with AB! I've been saying this since the end of July. We may be marginally better than last season but still have big holes to fill.

The so called NHL media that are making these predictions agree with a select few of us that the Habs are not that much more improved than last season. Samsonov and Johnson doesn't equal automatic playoff. If not for Huet, their prediction of last season of us finishing 9th would of been close if not bang on!

The most important signing was keeping Huet. Like last season, he gives us a chance to make the playoffs.

Also don't understand why the Rib bashers of last season are now in love with the guy. They hated everything about him. Now that Gainey re-signed him and Ribs is working on his skating, he's the answer to fill the big hole down the middle???

Personally, I've always accepted and sometimes appreciated Ribs' talent and contributions relevent to his pay and also realize that more will be expected from him now with his pay raise. But some of the posters(you know who you are) that totally bashed him the last few seasons are now sounding pypocritical. Is it because Gainey fooled them all with the raise? Is this out of respect for Gainey that now there'll be a love fest for Ribs? What happened to "Gainey will send Ribs packing" bit? Gainey isn't God is he?

barry33 · Guru

macneil wrote:

well if it isnt the glass have empty twins , and-barry , are you sure you guys are hab fans , tell me who montreal should have signed that they didnt try to , they reportedly tried for shanny, arnott, elias , some of the d that were available were way overpayed , im glad we didnt offer mckee, 4 mil, or mitchel 3mil, kubina 5 mil,we overpaid for boulion but at least it was under 2 mil. as for dumont , i cant believe buffalo didnt match the offer by nashville and bet they would have matched if we offerd him that . are we better than last year , yes , are we cup contenters , not yet but who knows with the way things played out last year for certain teams .

Mac- you failed to notice the part of my post wher I sai dthat Gainey TRIED to get help but was unsuccessful...that happens and we will start the season with what w ehave and hope for the kids to develop and for Ribs to start looking like a hockey player. But what I am sick of is the "wait for the kids to develop" and "just wait til next year" attitude that we, as habs fans, have adopted. Additionally, I refuse to get into the "Boston overpaid for Chara" or "THe Rangers overpaid Shanny". The fact is that they went out and did something to TRY and improve their team. Lets not knock them for that. And lets not say that every free agent we wanted that went elsewhere is overpaid.

macneil · Guru

i know barry , sorry, i read the first lines of you post then i replied , then read the rest , and was too lazy to edit my post , i knew you'd reply so i figured i get a chance then , we are way better than we were last year AB. sammy is better than zed has been lately , johnson is better than bulis , sammy will boost kovy, huet and abby will be solid in the nets , the d is unchanged , but wasnt bad last year , and i never been in love with ribs but its his last year here if he cant put up point those 2 on his wings he'll never put them up.

wright · Veteran Member

Ando wrote:

From Arnott foregoing more money to go play in that Mecca of hockey known as Nashville, right on down to turning the collective cold shoulder to J.P. Dumont (who would have taken less money to become a Hab).

No upgrade to the defense…at all…NOTHING…not one single player!

The flipping of one spotty and inconsistent offensive player (Zed) for another (Sammy) as well as losing one utility player (Bulis) for another (Johnson).

…explain the part one more time where this team is getting a raw deal from those in the media who believe that this team is not considered playoff material?!?!?!?

No question the Habs did not address their most pressing needs: a mobile dman with offensive skills (i.e. a Markov clone) and a strong physical centerman with good production numbers. A key injury to either Markov or Koviu will expose the vulnerabilities of the Habs and make for a very long season. The reality is though, there were only two worthwhile centerman available in free agency, and from all apparent information the Habs made a strong pitch for Arnott. There were alot of quality ufa dmen, and to me that is where Gainey came up lacking.

Samsanov and Johnson represent a significant upgrade over Bulis and Zednik. Compare those players career numbers and the Samsanov/Johnson combo is far superior to Zednik/Bulis. Look how well Kovalev and Samsonov worked during the Olympics when they played together. Bulis and Zednik wanted out, team chemistry will be better. Other factors point to the Habs being better this year: Carbo coaching,Huet in goal for a full season, the continued devlopment of the younger players. Overall the Habs should be a little better. Outside of the Rangers and Boston, who else in the Eastern Conference significantly upgraded themselves? A lot of teams look like Tampa: address one need (in their case goaltending) but regress in other areas ( Tampa loses Kubina on defence, and Modin upfront) and overall remain fairly static. From that perspective the habs are no different.

And-o I am a little confused, in earlier posts you seemed very positive on Gainey's moves, and now you seem very negative, you would have to be to make reference to Harold Ballard in the title of your post!!!!

Ando · Guru

wright wrote:

...And-o I am a little confused, in earlier posts you seemed very positive on Gainey's moves, and now you seem very negative...

While And-o aspires to be an idealist...And-o is ultimately a realist!

...any/all improvement this season will result from talent developed within!

plouf · Guru

Ando wrote:

wright wrote:

...And-o I am a little confused, in earlier posts you seemed very positive on Gainey's moves, and now you seem very negative...

While And-o aspires to be an idealist...And-o is ultimately a realist!

...any/all improvement this season will result from talent developed within!

The so-called "realist" stance is the easy stance to take. Nothing against being critical, but I find this tends to get hysterical and old. Realism would acknowledge the randomness involved and the fact that the Habs are mostly an unknown quality and there probably wasn't a whole lot any GM could have done about it. I vote for the steady improvement and going with the youngsters...

Ironic that you complain about people hedging their bets with respect to Koivu. You guys are all hedge hedge hedge. Show some backbone and stop whining. It's old already.

Go Habs Go!

Ando · Guru

plouf wrote:

Ironic that you complain about people hedging their bets with respect to Koivu. You guys are all hedge hedge hedge. Show some backbone and stop whining. It's old already.

How do realistic critiques (and debate) over approaches to growth and development equate to the hedging of bets?

In fact, the two are not only opposite…they contradict one another!

So, while one requires actually taking a position and standing by it (rightly or wrongly so), the other just requires that you blindly follow along sheltered by the hedge of idealism and denial.

In the end…the only thing that is ‘old already’ here at ‘gohabs’ is the almost total immunity and blind faith given to a select few players who really haven’t ever consistently produced at an elite level…never…ever…except remember that one time…and then…but…maybe…sometimes! Get the drift???

murphy · Veteran Member

Ando wrote:

plouf wrote:

Ironic that you complain about people hedging their bets with respect to Koivu. You guys are all hedge hedge hedge. Show some backbone and stop whining. It's old already.

How do realistic critiques (and debate) over approaches to growth and development equate to the hedging of bets?

In fact, the two are not only opposite…they contradict one another!

So, while one requires actually taking a position and standing by it (rightly or wrongly so), the other just requires that you blindly follow along sheltered by the hedge of idealism and denial.

In the end…the only thing that is ‘old already’ here at ‘gohabs’ is the almost total immunity and blind faith given to a select few players who really haven’t ever consistently produced at an elite level…never…ever…except remember that one time…and then…but…maybe…sometimes! Get the drift???

Folks, lets not forget that a big part of the realistic equation has been omitted-language issue, media, and taxes. I am sure these have played a big part and will continue to do so when it comes to signing free agents, etc. This too is being realistic. Lets hope our young players continue to improve and this, plus future good draft choices, should make the Habs a contender in the not too distant future. In the meantime, lets 'grin and bear it' and cheer for our team.

plouf · Guru

Thank you Murphy.

THAT was a realistic comment.

I have stood by Gainey because I think he's going in the right direction, and also because I recognize that certain factors are beyond the control of a given GM. And we have to hear puffed up statements about "realism" from people who are essentially making the safe bet, which is that Montreal will not go all the way this year. I think there is a lot of gamble in all of this, but I wonder what Montreal has to do this year for the GM to be seen to have done a good job?

My opinion about GMs: they should be cut slack for several years while their plans start to take effect. Especially when the GM is a proven guy like Bob Gainey. We needed to REBUILD - big time. Gainey does not seem naive about the new NHL, and also the situation in Montreal. So far he has righted a foundering ship. The pool of youth looks better every year. But from now on there's a lot of unpredictability because of the youth factor: Gainey knows it. Why do we seem unable to be realistic and accept the fact that rebuilding a team is going to come with some bumps along the way?

As for Koivu, frankly And-o I think your comments are beneath the level of class that this organization stands for. I was surprised at them, even coming from you.

wright · Veteran Member

plouf wrote:

Thank you Murphy.

THAT was a realistic comment.

I have stood by Gainey because I think he's going in the right direction, and also because I recognize that certain factors are beyond the control of a given GM. And we have to hear puffed up statements about "realism" from people who are essentially making the safe bet, which is that Montreal will not go all the way this year. I think there is a lot of gamble in all of this, but I wonder what Montreal has to do this year for the GM to be seen to have done a good job?

My opinion about GMs: they should be cut slack for several years while their plans start to take effect. Especially when the GM is a proven guy like Bob Gainey. We needed to REBUILD - big time. Gainey does not seem naive about the new NHL, and also the situation in Montreal. So far he has righted a foundering ship. The pool of youth looks better every year. But from now on there's a lot of unpredictability because of the youth factor: Gainey knows it. Why do we seem unable to be realistic and accept the fact that rebuilding a team is going to come with some bumps along the way?

As for Koivu, frankly And-o I think your comments are beneath the level of class that this organization stands for. I was surprised at them, even coming from you.

Great post,Plouf. No GM has a prisitine record, and Gainey has made some miscalculations along the way, but the slow but steady revival of the franchise after years of neglect started to turn round with Andre Savard (some good draft selections) and has continued with Gainey.

Nil d · Guru

plouf wrote:

As for Koivu, frankly And-o I think your comments are beneath the level of class that this organization stands for. I was surprised at them, even coming from you.

Many things surprise me, but that ain't one of them!

And-o sings a one-note tune, but he's entertaining.

plouf · Guru

No doubt. He keeps me coming back.

(Which is another reason why I vote for no censorship unle(ss absolutely necessary.)

Habtastic · Guru

plouf wrote:

No doubt. He keeps me coming back.

(Which is another reason why I vote for no censorship unle(ss absolutely necessary.)

I second that!

Habtastic

brooklynhabfan · Guru

Are we talking about Harold or Billy Ballard here?

barry33 · Guru

plouf wrote:

Thank you Murphy.

THAT was a realistic comment.

I have stood by Gainey because I think he's going in the right direction, and also because I recognize that certain factors are beyond the control of a given GM. And we have to hear puffed up statements about "realism" from people who are essentially making the safe bet, which is that Montreal will not go all the way this year. I think there is a lot of gamble in all of this, but I wonder what Montreal has to do this year for the GM to be seen to have done a good job?

My opinion about GMs: they should be cut slack for several years while their plans start to take effect. Especially when the GM is a proven guy like Bob Gainey. We needed to REBUILD - big time. Gainey does not seem naive about the new NHL, and also the situation in Montreal. So far he has righted a foundering ship. The pool of youth looks better every year. But from now on there's a lot of unpredictability because of the youth factor: Gainey knows it. Why do we seem unable to be realistic and accept the fact that rebuilding a team is going to come with some bumps along the way?

As for Koivu, frankly And-o I think your comments are beneath the level of class that this organization stands for. I was surprised at them, even coming from you.

I think that this year will go a long way to show what Gainey is made of. In a sense he shot himself in the foot when he was hired by saying that he had a "5 year plan" to win a cup. If I am not mistaken this is year 3. If the 5 year plan is to come to fruition (and GAWDDDD I hope he is right lol) then this year we need to finish in the top 4 in the East. Get er done boys.