if a chicken is afraid that her eggs will break, why lay them? if a baby is afraid that he will fall down taking his first step, why try and walk? the point is, all these IF'S about the habs in the upcoming season, weather or not gainey did enought during off-season  remains to be seen, did he improve the habs-YES, all we can do is wait and see if it was enough!!

macneil wrote:

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the same can be said for all teams , injuries are a part of the game , all we can hope for is if/when we do get injuries that the next person steps up and hopefully all the good guys dont get hurt at the same time .

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Thats true Mac..but as a GM, who KNEW that it was possible that Koivui may not be able to play, yet did not get a center, and KNEW that Boillon had a bad knee and yet signed him to a 3 year contract and did not get a  dman, the buck stops there.

I've asked before and I'll ask again, who is this mythical big center, and how will we get a hold of him? Take a dip into the sea of reality and tell me, I really want to know!!!

I feel the same way as AB, that we are entering the season in a situation where things could really go extremely wrong, right from the get-go. Not saying this is going to happen, but that things are less settled than usual because of the Koivu situation and the fact that none of our other centres have shown consistency. I too would have liked to see a top-flight centre arrive. I'm not as worried about depth as I am about the lack of clear top 2 guys beyond Koivu. I'm hoping Ribeiro can be better this year, or that Plekanec continues to develop quickly. Or that Bonk gets back his offensive touch and confidence. But I'm not totally confident about any of those things. 

But blaming Gainey seems pointless. There were probably only a couple of players available who fit the job description. Gainey clearly tried to get them and failed. I really don't think it's necessarily his fault. If a guy flat out has no interest in coming to Montreal, what are you going to do? The fact that we got Kovalev seems more and more like a miracle in the current climate.

 To my mind Gainey has chosen the smartest path available to him - continue to improve the team gradually, and from within, until things click. Carolina's cup was not about top-line free agent signings, but about the development of their core team, supplemented by some free agent signings when the pieces had already come together. Rutherford waited until Staal, etc... started to click. Then he made the deals. And players were only too glad to come on board a winner. Remember, people were lambasting Rutherford before the season started for having done nothing to improve the team - ironic (nobody thought Matt Cullen or Justin Williams were going to do much, for example, Cullen had 19 points the season before, and Williams had 44, his career high - Staal went from 31 points to 100 in more or less the same amount of games.). It's interesting to read last seasons Sporting News preseason guide for a sense of the situation. It's pretty similar to what we're dealing with. In fact, most people thought it was worse.

Those are the only kinds of free agents were going to get boys and girls. Supplementary players, guys who are good, but not franchise players. Guys who want a kick at the cup with a well-oiled machine, not guys who will have to help smooth out the rough patches in a rebuilding scheme, even if it's a rebuilding that's on the right track and nearly there. Players from other teams are going to wait and see how Montreal performs for the first 30 games or so...just like we are (and just like Gainey will). They're not stupid either. I guarantee that hockey pundits are as unsure about Montreal's future as we are. It could go any which way.

To a great extent it will depend on Carbonneau (and Koivu's injury).

P.s.

AB. Please tell me that this business of referring to yourself in the third person is just a temporary thing. Please? We already have one of those....

 

plouf wrote:

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But blaming Gainey seems pointless. There were probably only a couple of players available who fit the job description. Gainey clearly tried to get them and failed. I really don't think it's necessarily his fault. If a guy flat out has no interest in coming to Montreal, what are you going to do? The fact that we got Kovalev seems more and more like a miracle in the current climate.

 

This is the core part of the argument. Some will say that Gainey hasn't improved the club drastically and they are right. BUT...on the other hand....the way I feel is that BG tried to sign that elusive franchise player but couldn't entice either Shanny or Arnott to come here even though he made higher offers to both than what they signed for with their respective new teams. This can be debated endlessly and blamed on high taxes or the pressure of playing in Montreal and the idiot media frenzy that begins when the doors at the Phone Booth open for the season but the bottom line is that high profile players just don't want to sign here and nobody knows the exact reason why except the players themselves.

I feel we have a better team than we did at the beginning of the free agency period and the most glaring weakness is going to our lack of depth on defense. We definitely could use a big name center but if Markov or another of our top 4 get hurt the team is going to suffer unless one or more of our minor league players steps up in a major way to fill the gap. As has been said numerous times I believe the only way we are going to get big name players to come to Montreal is to trade for them. I personally will wait until the season begins before I pass judgement on BG and his building of our current team...

Oh yeah.....Leetch is still available and I really think it would be worth the effort to sign him to a 1 year deal even if it does hurt our free space under the cap. He is a proven p[erformer and I think the asking price wouldn't be all that bad....

 

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Whoa...sorry for the double post lol I deleted the line that broke up my reply from the part of Plouf's post. I must have had a blonde moment.............

I am going to be very honest about Ab. I don't care if he wants to be And-o jr., but what I do care about is why everytime someone counters his posts with logic and research does he A) change the subject B) Say "I agree" with a poster who lightly acknowledges and counters said refute C) Abandons the post and starts a new thread (or 2 or 3) saying almost the same thing as in all the others.

Can you answer me that question, Ab?

Habtastic

P.S. Arnott or his agent said somewhere that he had decided upon Nashville before Free Agency began. We had no chance.

plouf wrote:

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Habtastic wrote:

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I am going to be very honest about Ab. I don't care if he wants to be And-o jr., but what I do care about is why everytime someone counters his posts with logic and research does he A) change the subject B) Say "I agree" with a poster who lightly acknowledges and counters said refute C) Abandons the post and starts a new thread (or 2 or 3) saying almost the same thing as in all the others. Can you answer me that question, Ab? Habtastic P.S. Arnott or his agent said somewhere that he had decided upon Nashville before Free Agency began. We had no chance.

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Well I don't want to make it a personal thing, but I do agree. If you're going to make controversial comments or take bizarre positions, at least address the debate itself rather than just saying the same thing over and over again spread all over different threads. To take random examples - barry and And-o often make strong, sometimes controversial stands on this or that issue, but if you argue with them they'll usually address your points in one way or another. I don't agree with them about everything, but at least it's clear what their reasoning is.

AB you have a tendency to slip in things like: "Ribeiro has been our best centre over the last two years" as if they are givens - someone refutes it - but then that's it, that's all we hear about it. What I'd like to know is: on what basis is Ribeiro a better centre than Koivu over the last two years? I'll make my case. I wonder what yours would be....

Scoring? That can't be it, since Koivu has more points. Especially when you consider that Ribeiro played with Kovalev most of last season, Ribeiro's scoring wasn't that impressive, to say the least. Even the year where Ribeiro led the team in scoring he was only 3 points ahead of Koivu (if you count playoffs), but played quite a few more games. Ribeiro was given prime power-play time for the second half of the season, and produced very little. 

Leadership? Attitude? I doubt you'd find too many backers there, even from Koivu critics.

Physical play? Defense? Faceoffs? Skating? Grit? Positioning?

I can't think of any area where Ribeiro has been our best centreman over the last two years.

And I actually like Ribeiro. Honest. Play-acting and all.

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 Sorry Plouf! Just noticed this post. I'm very busy this summer and don't get to follow up as often as I should or would like to.

 Where did I say Ribs is our best center the last two season?

 Also, I've always referred to myself in the third person from time to time. I don't copy other posters. I'm my own person like everyone here. I've been around and on this earth too long to not have individuality! I'm not ten years old. It's also not fair to compare posters with others because they may agree with that poster the most. That's like saying Habtastic is copying Nil because he may agree with him the most. We all still have our opinions and unique way of presenting them.

Found it.

 

Here's the quote:

You said it johab...the guy has consistantly been our top center the last couple years. That is the big problem with this team that still hasn't been addressed.

 

 

plouf wrote:

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Found it.

 

Here's the quote:

You said it johab...the guy has consistantly been our top center the last couple years. That is the big problem with this team that still hasn't been addressed.

 

 

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Thanks Plouf! That was a different thread and I was confirming what johab said in his original thread and adding that.....that is still a big problem that we don't have a defined number one center. It shouldn't even be arguable at this stage of who is number one especially with the wage Saks is making and comparing that to Ribs plus production.

 Frankly my point was, we still have a big hole at that number one position if johab or anyone for that matter considers Ribs our number one the last couple years and presently.