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Ando


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Bob The Builder!
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And-o thinks that Bob Gainey only maybe covets one or two UFA's.  Other than that, he is clearly dedicated to developing this organization almost exclusively from within. 


And-o's only 'concern' (if that is what you could call it) is that...like any solid house...you require 4 cornerstones....and And-o only counts 3 in place thus far.  Those 3 being...


1.  systematic links to the winning past (Carbo, Jarvis and Muller)


2.  focus on scouting and drafting (Timmins et al)


3.  methodical and deliberate group player development and graduated promotions (FOR EXAMPLE...Class I = Komisarek, Higgins, Plekanec, Perezhogin, Danis.  Class II = Kostitsyn, Latendresse, Lapierre, Locke, Chipchura, Cote, etc.  Class III = Price, Maxwell, Fischer, Emelin, etc, etc, etc.) 


4.  ???   


...the question is, what does Bob have in mind...a M-A-J-O-R trade???...or does Bob see a young guy waiting in the wings???


And-o is here to tell you all though...the glass is more than half full (and a far cry from the likes of Juha Lind, Trent Cleary and Craig Darby getting augmented by foolish trades, signings and draft choices)!


C'mon gang!!!  And-o invites you all to look past our present 'flat tire' (one 'flat' out of the four) and see the fine piece of machinery slowly being assembled!!!  GET ON-BOARD NOW!!! 



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macneil


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and-o i share your enthusiasm for our future but if bob keep spending like a drunken sailor we will not have any money to sign any f.a.'s. i have to ask why ribs , why striet and why us . if your unhappy with koivu for 4.75 what are your thoughts on ribs at 1.9 .

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Nil d


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Who is this inveterate optimist who has stolen And-o's computer and is posting under his avatar these days?!


Good analyses, my friend!





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Habtastic


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Habtastic really digs And-o 2.0!

Habtastic

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Ando


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macneil wrote:

...if your unhappy with koivu for 4.75 what are your thoughts on ribs at 1.9 .

Well MacDaddy, if we can look past 'the dive' and the controversy that is Mike Ribeiro than perhaps we can get some reasonable comparators based on points (which is usually the main factor agents and GM's negotiate with...I know, I know...leadership, blah, blah...but it really does boil down to lighting-the-lamp all too often when it comes to contracts)


So...just for example...Ribs is 26 and he played 2nd line centre (don't remind And-o) and tallied 51 points.  As a comparator, NYI's Mike York is their 2nd line guy...he is 28 and tallied 52 points and makes $2 million.  Also, Brian Smolinski is Ottawa's 2nd line guy...he is wayyyy older and scored wayyyy less...he makes $2.2 million.  Next, Calgary iced S. Yelle as their #2 guy...he tallied wayyyy less and makes $1.368.  The list goes on and on...


...so...in the end, as a #2 guy...based solely on point production Mike Ribeiro is not grossly overpaid...sorry! 


Of course And-o wouldn't have him on his team...but he ain't overpaid in the context of his comparators.....and at least he can be traded (which is more than And-o can say for others)!!! 


 


 



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macneil


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you done didder now and-o, you made a sane arguement about ribs and comparative num. 2 centers , now whenever you rag on saks people will bring this post up and compare stats with other centers and what they make . but i still think boob dropped the ball on this 1 . now everyone knows he overpays they will go in looking for the stars , hoping for the moon.

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Ando


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macneil wrote:

...now whenever you rag on saks people will bring this post up and compare stats with other centers and what they make...

Yeah Mac, And-o could be scraping egg off of his face when folks start comparing Saku's pay (especially relative to points, accomplishments and potential) to the likes of LeCavalier, Brind'Amour and Thornton!


...just think Brindy actually makes LESS than Saku!



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Nil d


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Ando wrote:

macneil wrote: ...now whenever you rag on saks people will bring this post up and compare stats with other centers and what they make... Yeah Mac, And-o could be scraping egg off of his face when folks start comparing Saku's pay (especially relative to points, accomplishments and potential) to the likes of LeCavalier, Brind'Amour and Thornton! ...just think Brindy actually makes LESS than Saku!

That's the old And-o we all know and love!  Turning every post into an anti-Saku rant............


Welcome back!




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macneil


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yes and-o he makes more now but not in the past when he was outpointing brindy and making 2 mil less per i posted his stats last 4 years when he was making over 5 i believe . ill get them again , those are not the stats of a 5 mil player .


rod brind-amour .68pts/game
League GP G A Pts +/- PIM Shots Sh%
2005-06 Carolina NHL 78 31 39 70 +8 68 198 15.66
2003-04 Carolina NHL 78 12 26 38 0 28 141 8.51
2002-03 Carolina NHL 48 14 23 37 -9 37 110 12.73
2001-02 Carolina NHL 81 23 32 55 +3 40 162 14.20
2000-01 Carolina NHL 79 20 36 56 -7 47 163 12.27
1999-00 Carolina NHL 33 4 10 14 -12 22 61 6.56


saks .85pts /game
2005-06 Montreal NHL 72 17 45 62 +1 70 138 12.32
2003-04 Montreal NHL 68 14 41 55 -5 52 112 12.50
2002-03 Montreal NHL 82 21 50 71 +5 72 147 14.29
2001-02 Montreal NHL 3 0 2 2 0 0 2 0.00
2000-01 Montreal NHL 54 17 30 47 +2 40 113 15.04
1999-00 Montreal NHL 24 3 18 21 +7 14 53 5.66


still want debate these 2 players

-- Edited by macneil at 12:58, 2006-07-07

-- Edited by macneil at 13:00, 2006-07-07

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Nil d


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Well struck, macneil!  We all tend to be blinded by recent accomplishments (e.g. Brind'amour's recent playoff performance), but Saku has put the numbers to back up him captaincy - and his salary.




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macneil


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thats twice ive posted those stats in a and-o post but got no reply , funny how he cant say anything bad about koivu when you stuff his mouth with his feet .

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Ando


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macneil wrote:

...funny how he cant say anything bad about koivu when you stuff his mouth with his feet .

Yeah you sure showed And-o! 


Saku is AT LEAST as good as Brind'Amour...LeCavalier...and Thornton!!!


...and who knows, maybe North Korea will become the next vacation hotspot!



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Ando


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Oh Macneil...please post LeCav's and Jumbo's stats relative to Saku's as well please!

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macneil


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jumbo joe games 373 pts 438 pct 1.17/game

vinnie games 385 pts 307 pct .79 / game

both these players are making over 6-7 mil per year and had better surrounding cast than koivu , now they may have more talent than the little guy but its not as big a difference you like to make it out to be . koivu is a number 1 center . the proof is in the numbers compared to your 3 gods.

-- Edited by macneil at 13:19, 2006-07-08

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Nil d


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Well done again, macneil!


I'm a numbers man myself, so I like your replies.  Numbers do speak volumes, and these ones say our little captain's alright!




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brooklynhabfan


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Nil d wrote:
Numbers do speak volumes,...


And a picture speaks a thousand words, right and-o?

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Ando


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macneil wrote:

...they may have more talent than the little guy but its not as big a difference you like to make it out to be...koivu is a number 1 center...

...you forgot the Cup...the Hart...the young age of Vinny and Jumbo...and their durability.


...and saying that these 3 guys (just 3 examples of about 20 we could use in the NHL) "may have more talent" is like saying that your wife is a little bit pregnant...and Saku himself would likely tell you that he would be a better #2 centre...and he sure would be a distant 'second fiddle' to the likes of these comparables!


Cripes, just imagine Ryder, Higgins and/or Kovalev skating with either one of those two big horses!!!


 



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Muller93


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Ando wrote:

 Vinny and Jumbo...and their durability. ...

 


Was it not Saku that out performed "Jumbo" wilst injured a couple of seasons ago? If I recall, Jumbo played like a fragile buttercup after Komi nailed him...


Yeah...he is durable. Jumbo was traded from Boston cause he is a surfer boy who has all kinds of skill, but lacks the grit of our captain.



-- Edited by Muller93 at 20:39, 2006-07-08

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macneil


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and-o i and others are not argueing that koivu wouldnt be better off being a num. 2 center , we are not argueing there are no better in the game than him , we are argueing that he is not half as bad as you make him out to be , i just gave you 2 examples (brind-amour - lecav. ) of people he outperfomed in the last 5 years , people you are begging to get, but you still cant seem to give any credit to our "little" leader .

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