Coaching

barry33 · Guru

Coaching

macneil · Guru

i agree barry , i wonder if bob is sorry for hireing guy right away , if you look now there are some good coaches available , if he had waited he could have hired "pat quinn" tongue planted firmly in cheek. but there are some good ones out there.

Key Lime · Guru

Let's not under estimate Carbo...it's not like a rookie or second year coach has never took his team win a Stanley Cup.

Even if we had a Crawford or Nolan, we still wouldn't of beaten Carolina under the same circumstances. I believe the GM's role in getiing the right players and finding the right balance has more of an impact on a team's success. If you have a team filled with talented players with medocre character and Scotty Bowman as HC, the team still ain't going anywhere.

I never thought Demers to be a good "Hockeyman" but he is a motivator. The 93' team had incredible character and look what happened.

Look at Lindey Ruff...before the season started, no one would of said he's a top coach but he has the right group of guys and they respond well to him.

Look at Laviolette...a young coach but is he a great coach or does that team just have the right players?

I don't know but player scouts and GM's are the real driving forces behind an NHL team's success...IMO. Carbo will do what's needed to guide these players...

If you take the same players we had this season into next season, with no changes...the Coach can be a mastermind, the team will still be fighting for 8th spot. It's like a carpenter working with limited tools...

barry33 · Guru

Key Lime wrote:

Let's not under estimate Carbo...it's not like a rookie or second year coach has never took his team win a Stanley Cup. Even if we had a Crawford or Nolan, we still wouldn't of beaten Carolina under the same circumstances. I believe the GM's role in getiing the right players and finding the right balance has more of an impact on a team's success. If you have a team filled with talented players with medocre character and Scotty Bowman as HC, the team still ain't going anywhere. I never thought Demers to be a good "Hockeyman" but he is a motivator. The 93' team had incredible character and look what happened. Look at Lindey Ruff...before the season started, no one would of said he's a top coach but he has the right group of guys and they respond well to him. Look at Laviolette...a young coach but is he a great coach or does that team just have the right players? I don't know but player scouts and GM's are the real driving forces behind an NHL team's success...IMO. Carbo will do what's needed to guide these players... If you take the same players we had this season into next season, with no changes...the Coach can be a mastermind, the team will still be fighting for 8th spot. It's like a carpenter working with limited tools...

I still say that the whole loyalty and media thing goes along way in how Montreal makes decisions. As a fan I want the BEST COACH AVAILABLE. I am not convinced Carbo is that man. But I am willing to give him the benefit of a doubt. 2 years left in the 5 year plan and an unproven coach.

hockeyman · Senior Member

Hopefully BG sees something in GC.

Karim · Newbie

I have to disagree. I think Carbo is a great student of the game and a proven leader . He may lack experience behind the bench but with time he will get better. Mark Crowford has experience but look at what happend to the Canucks this year. They had the players to do much better.

I like Claude Jullien and I was sad to see him leave but after seeing Gainey and Carbo and what they accomplished with this team, I think the choice to hire Carbo was the right choice.

Carbo is a winner he understands the game and the habs will do better.

mperra (Admin) · Guru

On Friday's Team990's noon radio show, "The Montreal Forum with Tony Marinaro", Tony asks why don't the Canadiens pursue Chris Chelios for the Assistant coaching position. Provided of course, he retires as active player.

habsforeverfan · Veteran Member

Karim wrote:

I have to disagree. I think Carbo is a great student of the game and a proven leader . He may lack experience behind the bench but with time he will get better. Mark Crowford has experience but look at what happend to the Canucks this year. They had the players to do much better. I like Claude Jullien and I was sad to see him leave but after seeing Gainey and Carbo and what they accomplished with this team, I think the choice to hire Carbo was the right choice. Carbo is a winner he understands the game and the habs will do better.

Time will only tell if Carbo will be the right choice as coach. But let's not write off Carbo and criticize Gainey just because Nolan and Crawford are available. Even though he has limited experience Karim is right about Carbo understanding the game.

Bela Karoly (sp) is a perfect example of no experience but excellent coach. If there are any gymnastics fans on the forum, you will know that Karoly was Nadia Commaneci's coach. She is the Rumanian gymnast who scored the first perfect 10 at the Montreal Olympics in 1976. She went on to win multiple golds in Montreal and in Moscow Olympics and is a gymanstics super legend. Well back to Bela, he became one of the most successful coaches Rumania ever had and now coaches the US gymnastics team. But the story behind Karoly is that he never coached gymnasts before Nadia and in fact was not even in the sport. He was a rugby player. He just understood the fundamentals of gymnastics and was an excellent motivator and communicator. However he does have some questionable coaching practises. So maybe we have another Cinderella story with Carbo.

But if Scotty Bowman ever came out of retirement and was available, I would have to ask Carbo to step aside.

Johab · Guru

We should have the NHL go back to the old rules, have players from Quebec only be allowed to play for montreal...imagine the team we'd have then....im drooling just thinking about it...

Nil d · Guru

habsforeverfan wrote:

Bela Karoly (sp) is a perfect example of no experience but excellent coach. If there are any gymnastics fans on the forum, you will know that Karoly was Nadia Commaneci's coach. She is the Rumanian gymnast who scored the first perfect 10 at the Montreal Olympics in 1976. She went on to win multiple golds in Montreal and in Moscow Olympics and is a gymanstics super legend. Well back to Bela, he became one of the most successful coaches Rumania ever had and now coaches the US gymnastics team. But the story behind Karoly is that he never coached gymnasts before Nadia and in fact was not even in the sport. He was a rugby player. He just understood the fundamentals of gymnastics and was an excellent motivator and communicator. However he does have some questionable coaching practises. So maybe we have another Cinderella story with Carbo. But if Scotty Bowman ever came out of retirement and was available, I would have to ask Carbo to step aside.

Maybe we should get him to coach the Habs - God knows we have a few primadonnas on the team!

plouf · Guru

Disagree about Lindy Ruff. He's been an excellent coach for some time, and is showing it right now (with limited resources).

But he was a kind of similar hire to Carbonneau. The team had axed Nolan (a really great coach, mind you, who I'd love to see behind the Habs bench - much as I think Julien's probably an excellent coach) and if I remember the story correctly hired a Sabres stalwart, an in-house guy with not too much experience. He looked shaky at first but grew with the team and now look at the Sabres.

You never know what's going to happen. Carbonneau was always a smart, tough, committed, team-first player. Ideal for coaching.

barry33 · Guru

plouf wrote:

Disagree about Lindy Ruff. He's been an excellent coach for some time, and is showing it right now (with limited resources). But he was a kind of similar hire to Carbonneau. The team had axed Nolan (a really great coach, mind you, who I'd love to see behind the Habs bench - much as I think Julien's probably an excellent coach) and if I remember the story correctly hired a Sabres stalwart, an in-house guy with not too much experience. He looked shaky at first but grew with the team and now look at the Sabres. You never know what's going to happen. Carbonneau was always a smart, tough, committed, team-first player. Ideal for coaching.

THAT is exactly my point!!! Why should we wait for a coach to "develop"? I thought the plan was for Gainey to bring us a cup in 5 years and he has been here 3? I am not saying that Carbo will not be agood coach one day and maybe even right away. In that vein, perhaps Julien was the wrong hire at the time because he had no NHL experience. My bottom limne is this..why take a chance with a guy who is unproven and "wait for him to develop"? Yes Ruff grew into a good coach. But it took years and alot of losses at the expense of the team/ My question is this. Is Carbo th eman to deliver us a cup in 2 years which is Gaineyt's timetable?

Fatherhab · Senior Member

Do we hold Gainey to the 5 year plan or do we give him some slack in this area. When he took over, the NHL was operating under a different style. This season and in the future, teams will be emphasizing speed and puck control. Grinders will have their place, but watchout for the speed demons in the future. I say Gainey deserves some slack. Taking on the double duty of coach and GM were necessary this year. I believe he has come away from that job with a much clearer picture of the strengths and weaknesses of this team are. Just my thoughts

plouf · Guru

barry33 wrote:

plouf wrote:
Disagree about Lindy Ruff. He's been an excellent coach for some time, and is showing it right now (with limited resources). But he was a kind of similar hire to Carbonneau. The team had axed Nolan (a really great coach, mind you, who I'd love to see behind the Habs bench - much as I think Julien's probably an excellent coach) and if I remember the story correctly hired a Sabres stalwart, an in-house guy with not too much experience. He looked shaky at first but grew with the team and now look at the Sabres. You never know what's going to happen. Carbonneau was always a smart, tough, committed, team-first player. Ideal for coaching.
THAT is exactly my point!!! Why should we wait for a coach to "develop"? I thought the plan was for Gainey to bring us a cup in 5 years and he has been here 3? I am not saying that Carbo will not be agood coach one day and maybe even right away. In that vein, perhaps Julien was the wrong hire at the time because he had no NHL experience. My bottom limne is this..why take a chance with a guy who is unproven and "wait for him to develop"? Yes Ruff grew into a good coach. But it took years and alot of losses at the expense of the team/ My question is this. Is Carbo th eman to deliver us a cup in 2 years which is Gaineyt's timetable?

(Well...to be fair, you can't really count the lockout. According to Gainey's timetable it's the cup in 09. Of course I prefer Muller's timetable of 08...)

Carbonneau seems like a reasonable choice to me. He's had a lot of prep time, particularly with these players. It's not like Lindy Ruff took that long to get up to speed. To my mind he was working magic with a bunch of seeming stiffs pretty quickly. Remember, he took the Sabres to the finals in his second year, a year when the leading scorer on the team was Satan with 60-odd points. Grosek was the third-leading scorer on that group, with 50. Yeah they had Hasek, but I recall them showing serious work ethic and grit too, a good reflection on their coach.
Also, Ruff has finished .500 or better in 6 of his 7 seasons in this league, an amazing accomplishment given the talent level.

Jonny G · Senior Member

This is what Rutherford (Carolina's GM) had to say about Montreal as a team, and its coaching in particular:

'No disrespect to Philadelphia, Ottawa and New Jersey, they're all good teams, but some teams are a little better than others and I think Montreal is one of those teams,'' Rutherford said from Raleigh, N.C.

It's a surprising statement given the fact Montreal was seeded seventh, but Rutherford is adamant the Canadiens could have gone a long way.

''I don't think people gave Montreal enough credit for one, how their coaching staff prepared them; and two, how well they played,'' said Rutherford. ''That team was good. And that was one heck of a series. We can talk about teams on paper and what teams did during the regular season and things like that, but when I look at all the games in the playoffs and I watch most of them, I think Montreal is as tough a team to beat in this year's playoffs as any.''

Carolina fell behind 2-0 in the first round against the Canadiens before reeling off four consecutive one-goal victories, including a pair in overtime, to beat the Habs.

''Watch those games - you don't get any second to lull through a game with Montreal,'' said Rutherford. ''They're one of those teams.''

Star centre Eric Staal agreed with his boss.

''Oh yeah, they were playing really well, it was a battle every night,'' Staal said on the phone this week. ''There were some really close games. Every game was one goal except for the first when we got pounded by them. They're pretty good, they're fast and their goaltender was playing really well.''

For the full article, see the following on TSN's website:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=166069&hubname=

Nil d · Guru

Jonny G wrote:

This is what Rutherford (Carolina's GM) had to say about Montreal as a team, and its coaching in particular: 'No disrespect to Philadelphia, Ottawa and New Jersey, they're all good teams, but some teams are a little better than others and I think Montreal is one of those teams,'' Rutherford said from Raleigh, N.C. It's a surprising statement given the fact Montreal was seeded seventh, but Rutherford is adamant the Canadiens could have gone a long way. ''I don't think people gave Montreal enough credit for one, how their coaching staff prepared them; and two, how well they played,'' said Rutherford. ''That team was good. And that was one heck of a series. We can talk about teams on paper and what teams did during the regular season and things like that, but when I look at all the games in the playoffs and I watch most of them, I think Montreal is as tough a team to beat in this year's playoffs as any.'' Carolina fell behind 2-0 in the first round against the Canadiens before reeling off four consecutive one-goal victories, including a pair in overtime, to beat the Habs. ''Watch those games - you don't get any second to lull through a game with Montreal,'' said Rutherford. ''They're one of those teams.'' Star centre Eric Staal agreed with his boss. ''Oh yeah, they were playing really well, it was a battle every night,'' Staal said on the phone this week. ''There were some really close games. Every game was one goal except for the first when we got pounded by them. They're pretty good, they're fast and their goaltender was playing really well.'' For the full article, see the following on TSN's website: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=166069&hubname=

And here we thought they were all a bunch of lazy underachievers!

Interesting to see what others think of our boys, eh? And they play them eight (or, in Carolina's case, fourteen) times a year, so it's a valid point of view for sure.

plouf · Guru

Well one's thing IS certain. We were better against Carolina in the playoffs than we were in the regular season. Maybe that's why they have so much respect for the Habs now....(from a cup half-empty point of view)
Anyway, I like the idea of Montreal being one of those teams you just hate to play. It bodes well.