Gainey....hate him or love him?

Johab · Guru

Gainey....hate him or love him?

heet_150 · Guru

I don't hate or love* him. He is the coach and GM and I guess I have to trust that he knows what he is doing. Some are questioning why Bulis is sitting. I would rather he was playing, too, but I don't have the insight that BG has.
* Not... You're right Nil, beating a dead horse.

Nil d · Guru

heet_150 wrote:

I don't hate or love* him. He is the coach and GM and I guess I have to trust that he knows what he is doing. Some are questioning why Bulis is sitting. I would rather he was playing, too, but I don't have the insight that BG has. * Not... You're right Nil, beating a dead horse.

Yes, but still funny! We'll let it die, then revive it in a few weeks.

As for Gainey, we're all waiting for the BIG MOVE, yet he continues to tinker - and the team is winning. You can't really argue with success. I'll be interested to see what off-season moves he might make, but I have confidence in him.

AB Habman · Guru

I stand by my earlier posts that he's an average GM and a below average coach.

I'm guessing the Habs make the playoffs by about 4 or 6 points which is a few wins. My point is Gainey has been very lucky to get away with not adding anything substantial all season long to improve the team. His patience was over the top this season and it could of meant millions of lost revenue from missed playoffs. But hey, he got away with it........very lucky!

Key Lime · Guru

Love and hate are the two ends of the exteme.

I don't think people actually hate him because they would be fools , they just don'y like his passive way of doing everything!

I don't think people love him either, they just have confidence that with time, he'll slowly build a contender. I fall in that category.

barry33 · Guru

I am neutral on the guy at this stage. Really, it depends on what he does in the next year or two. In my mind the man has made some really D_U_M_B moves since coming to Montreal and it has been more good luck than good management that has hauled his ass out of the fire. For example the Garon trade for Bonk where Huet was basically a toss in because Gainey needed a backup goalie. All of a sudden Huet is on fire and Gainey looks like a genius (because before that, with the way Bonk was playing, Gainey was looking pretty bad). The signing of guys like Vandermeer (one way contract) and Ivannis, only to see them spend the year in Hamilton, then having to go get Downey..again..."head shaking material" and last, but not least, the signing of Theo to huge dollars looked bad, until Pierre Lacroix had a brain cramp and bailed Bobby out (barry33 still expects Gainey to have to throw the Av's GM a few trade gifts or draft picks down the line)

I guess for me the bottom line is that we shall see. Unlike many, I do not allow Gainey immunity just because he did a good job in Dallas. That was pre-cap era and a different time. He has yet to show me he can do it here.

larry · Member

I don't forget what Gainey gave to the Habs as a player. Besides being a great unselfish player he is a class act, something like "Big Jean".

I also believe that the reason he is GM and coach of the canadiens is maybe because he is so much better qualified than any member of this board, including barry33. I see nothing wrong in where he has taken this team to date.

JohnM · Guru

BG is the man. He does things that make sense for the Habs organization. He doesn't allow the media or fans sway his decisions. He takes care of problems that we all thought were impossible to take care of. He instills pride in the players wearing the CH. He is well above average as a coach and he is a great GM.

I am proud he is in charge of this organization.

gfeaver · Veteran Member

I'm with you Larry and Johnm. he has far more experience than I do (none) at the NHL level . he was a great player and played with many other greats. I am confident that he will do what he thinks is best for the team. it may not always work out, but thats life..
BG is my man !!!

Habtastic · Guru

I like him a lot and made it pretty clear why in a previous thread. As for coaching, CJAD says Carboneau took over Head-Coaching duties about 3 weeks ago, so I guess Gainey is figure-head head coach right now, but doing the job of an assistant.

Habtastic

thompstar · Veteran Member

how can you say what gainey does is luck???? please justify this.

he knows what he is doing, that is why he has the job! he will take this team in the right direction and the habs will be a contender in the next few years. the main reason for him to be patient and not run around making drastic moves is because he "unlike many people on this board including myself sometimes" realizes that we do not have a team that is ready to make a serious run at the cup. he see that the habs have a pretty good nucleous and with the development of our young players along with keeping the core of the team together, will give us better results then signing a bunch of guys that may or may not help us....example, toronto!

this off season will give us all a better idea of what he is planning for this team.

doodie · Veteran Member

WOULD YOU SAY IT'S A MATTER OF WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY......AND FROM WHAT i SEE, LATELY HE'S BEEN DOING A FINE JOB, IS IT 5 WINS IN A ROW..THATS THE PART i DON'T UNDERSTAND ...WHEN WE WERE LOSING SOME WERE PISSED OFF....NOW WERE WINNING AND PEOPLE ARE PISSED OFF.. WHAT HAPPENS NEXT YEAR ? ? ? ?... "iF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT"...THE LAST FIVE GAMES IT HASN'T BEEN BROKE,SO BOYS AND GIRLS LET'S RIDE THE WAVE ..."go habs go" YEPIE i AHHHHHHHH

thompstar · Veteran Member

one thing that makes gainey look like a genius is getting garth murray.

what a game he is having tonight, nice fight, nice goal, draws a penalty.....

Muller93 · Guru

barry33 wrote:

I am neutral on the guy at this stage. Really, it depends on what he does in the next year or two. In my mind the man has made some really D_U_M_B moves since coming to Montreal and it has been more good luck than good management that has hauled his ass out of the fire. For example the Garon trade for Bonk where Huet was basically a toss in because Gainey needed a backup goalie. All of a sudden Huet is on fire and Gainey looks like a genius (because before that, with the way Bonk was playing, Gainey was looking pretty bad). The signing of guys like Vandermeer (one way contract) and Ivannis, only to see them spend the year in Hamilton, then having to go get Downey..again..."head shaking material" and last, but not least, the signing of Theo to huge dollars looked bad, until Pierre Lacroix had a brain cramp and bailed Bobby out (barry33 still expects Gainey to have to throw the Av's GM a few trade gifts or draft picks down the line) I guess for me the bottom line is that we shall see. Unlike many, I do not allow Gainey immunity just because he did a good job in Dallas. That was pre-cap era and a different time. He has yet to show me he can do it here.

Oh boy Barry...

1. Begin: free agent...brilliant

2. Huet and Bonk for Garon( It seems I would take Huet straight up now and Bonk is a pretty decent shut down center)

3. Murray for Hossa: I would take that trade anyday. Hossa is a limpy and a nutbar

4. Kovalev for Baja...that's right Baja( something like that).

5. Downey as a free agent...notice the habs record since his arrival. Apparently a great guy in the dressing room and adds needed toughness.

6. Getting rid of Hainsey...so what...he is in columbas...WHHaaaoo. He is a nutbar.

7. Getting rid of Ward. again Whaoooo. we have 5-6 Wards( begin/Bulis/Sundstrom/Murray/etc)

8. The habs have gone from bottom feeders to striving for 6th spot. So what is Gainey/Carbo doing that is so D-U-M-B?

9. Theo...mark my words he will be fine in Colorado. Gainey signed a great goalie but the pressure and various other things got to him. Gainey made the right( only) move signing him. And was brilliant enough to unload him dispite his horrid play

10. So Barry let me get this straight. The Bonk/Huet trade=luck....the Theo dump=luck and Downey=luck( in other words after 3 attempts at getting a tough guy he finally finds a suitable one).

Right.

Key Lime · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

barry33 wrote: I am neutral on the guy at this stage. Really, it depends on what he does in the next year or two. In my mind the man has made some really D_U_M_B moves since coming to Montreal and it has been more good luck than good management that has hauled his ass out of the fire. For example the Garon trade for Bonk where Huet was basically a toss in because Gainey needed a backup goalie. All of a sudden Huet is on fire and Gainey looks like a genius (because before that, with the way Bonk was playing, Gainey was looking pretty bad). The signing of guys like Vandermeer (one way contract) and Ivannis, only to see them spend the year in Hamilton, then having to go get Downey..again..."head shaking material" and last, but not least, the signing of Theo to huge dollars looked bad, until Pierre Lacroix had a brain cramp and bailed Bobby out (barry33 still expects Gainey to have to throw the Av's GM a few trade gifts or draft picks down the line) I guess for me the bottom line is that we shall see. Unlike many, I do not allow Gainey immunity just because he did a good job in Dallas. That was pre-cap era and a different time. He has yet to show me he can do it here. Oh boy Barry... 1. Begin: free agent...brilliant 2. Huet and Bonk for Garon( It seems I would take Huet straight up now and Bonk is a pretty decent shut down center) 3. Murray for Hossa: I would take that trade anyday. Hossa is a limpy and a nutbar 4. Kovalev for Baja...that's right Baja( something like that). 5. Downey as a free agent...notice the habs record since his arrival. Apparently a great guy in the dressing room and adds needed toughness. 6. Getting rid of Hainsey...so what...he is in columbas...WHHaaaoo. He is a nutbar. 7. Getting rid of Ward. again Whaoooo. we have 5-6 Wards( begin/Bulis/Sundstrom/Murray/etc) 8. The habs have gone from bottom feeders to striving for 6th spot. So what is Gainey/Carbo doing that is so D-U-M-B? 9. Theo...mark my words he will be fine in Colorado. Gainey signed a great goalie but the pressure and various other things got to him. Gainey made the right( only) move signing him. And was brilliant enough to unload him dispite his horrid play 10. So Barry let me get this straight. The Bonk/Huet trade=luck....the Theo dump=luck and Downey=luck( in other words after 3 attempts at getting a tough guy he finally finds a suitable one). Right.

Thanks for breaking things down...you forgot a few things like Simpson, who doesn't look at at all out of place when he's on the ice. He's more or less solid, big, and can fight. Good pickup.

For the rest of it, the most criticized Habs are not the players...it's either the GM or the Coach. It will always be that way. These guys have no room to manouver. They are not judged at the end of the season. They are being judged each game. I don't know if it's because some posters are really convinced that they can be better GM's or Coaches but at the height of certain comments, it's sounds that way.

BUT!!!

LUCKILY WE HAVE A GM AND CAOCH THAT DOES NOT GET INFLUENCED BY THE PUBLIC OR THE MEDIA. IF PEANU HOULE WAS STILL OUR GM, HE WOULD OF TRADED AND DISMANTLED HALF THIS TEAM.

barry33 · Guru

I wonder how this board would reply to this thread if we were on a 5 game losing streak instead of a winning streak? I recall about 3 weeks ago many on here calling for Gainey's head. Now he is a genius?

wright · Veteran Member

barry33 wrote:

I wonder how this board would reply to this thread if we were on a 5 game losing streak instead of a winning streak? I recall about 3 weeks ago many on here calling for Gainey's head. Now he is a genius?

Barry, you seem to hold Gainey to an extremely high level of accountability. Certainly Gainey has made some missteps as gm of the Habs. Then again what gm has a pristine record of accomplishments? Outside of Lamoriello, Ken Holland and Brian Burke there are not too many other gm's with the track record of Gainey. Jay Feaster did a great job winning a stanley cup in Tampa, yet this season with the benefit of hindsight has made some major miscalculations (such as not trading for an established goalie). All eleite level gm's have made moves that have not been entirely succesful, and Gainey will not be the exception.

Gainey has been the habs full time gm for two seasons, not enough time to make a full assesment, but as Muller93 pointed out in arecent post a majority of his moves thus far seem to be positive in pushing the Canadiens in the right direction.

Certainly Gainey had the advantage in pre cap days of working with an unlimited budget in Dallas. Nonetheless he made trades where salary considerations were not a primary factor (acquiring Sydor,Hatcher,Skrudland etc) and making great draft picks, such as Turco, Iginla, Leithenen. To me he knows how to identify talent. Gainey as gm is as good an option as the Habs could have. Certainly this offseason moves with regards to trades and signings of ufa will go along way to determining his success but I think a full assesment of him should be held off until then. If not Gainey, Barry, who would you like to be the Habs gm?

larry · Member

Barry33 wrote:

wonder how this board would reply to this thread if we were on a 5 game losing streak instead of a winning streak? I recall about 3 weeks ago many on here calling for Gainey's head. Now he is a genius?

I often wonder how many extra cups the Habs would have won if Scotty Bowman had been kept in the main office, it does no good tho, because Ihave to accept the reality of life.

"Life is not what you wish it is whatis real." I can understand Barry33 not wanting to see Gainey do well after firing his good friend Julien... but we all have bitter pills to swallow in this life from time to time. Julien wished the Habs nothing but the best in his post firing TV appearances.

Muller93 · Guru

barry33 wrote:

I wonder how this board would reply to this thread if we were on a 5 game losing streak instead of a winning streak? I recall about 3 weeks ago many on here calling for Gainey's head. Now he is a genius?

Well, I have been consistent all along in saying that Gainey is the best man to build this team. I have said all along that this team is "building".

This 5 game winning streak has been great but lest we forget that we have had a few soft teams( although Wahington and Pitts have been knocking off the big guns lately...).

But Barry, no disrespect to CJ, I still think he is a great coach. But the guy could not get guys in the game. As much as you think that job should be done by the captain, I think that job belongs to the coach. The captain's job is to lead throgh example in practice and games.

If the "head" of the team is letting the children play out of control, not much the captain can do about it.

But for you to say that Gainey has made some D-U-M-B moves...is pretty silly I think. The only one that could be argued is the Bonk/Huet trade( maybe a bit of luck with Huet...or was it????). I heard Gainey comment that he watched Huet before the trade and liked his ability to "read plays" before they happened( and he made that comment before Heut stepped in). Gainey was a master at reading plays when he played...thus the great defensive skills...it makes you wonder.

Habs and Avs Fan · Veteran Member

I don't like him too much, I'd rather see Carbs. back there. He's made bad decisions whole year, esp. the trade too. Too many incidents where he has f*cked up. He also shows no emotion and his English accent when he tries to speak French is to die for

I guess he's average. I just don't agree on Bulis sitting and Zednik still playing.

Muller93 · Guru

Habs and Avs Fan wrote:

I don't like him too much, I'd rather see Carbs. back there. He's made bad decisions whole year, esp. the trade too. Too many incidents where he has f*cked up. He also shows no emotion and his English accent when he tries to speak French is to die for I guess he's average. I just don't agree on Bulis sitting and Zednik still playing.

You guys kill me. Here we are actually excited about the prospects of a post season and we are saying "I don't like him too much" and "he has made some D-U-M-B moves"

And habs and Av fan....Komi did make the right move in that fight...

and habs and Avs fan...Ribby is not as "talented" as you suggest. He can't skate, can't check, is soft on the puck, and avoids getting hit like the delicate flower avoids the cold...

But I figure Gainey is proud of him for working hard and accepting his minor role so he will keep him in there. It would be nice if he and Kovalev learned each others game a bit. Ribby does have good vison so I am suprised he does not find the open Kovalev more than he does??? I think it's a speed problem maybe?

barry33 · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Habs and Avs Fan wrote: I don't like him too much, I'd rather see Carbs. back there. He's made bad decisions whole year, esp. the trade too. Too many incidents where he has f*cked up. He also shows no emotion and his English accent when he tries to speak French is to die for I guess he's average. I just don't agree on Bulis sitting and Zednik still playing. You guys kill me. Here we are actually excited about the prospects of a post season and we are saying "I don't like him too much" and "he has made some D-U-M-B moves" And habs and Av fan....Komi did make the right move in that fight... and habs and Avs fan...Ribby is not as "talented" as you suggest. He can't skate, can't check, is soft on the puck, and avoids getting hit like the delicate flower avoids the cold... But I figure Gainey is proud of him for working hard and accepting his minor role so he will keep him in there. It would be nice if he and Kovalev learned each others game a bit. Ribby does have good vison so I am suprised he does not find the open Kovalev more than he does??? I think it's a speed problem maybe?

Look guys do not jump all over me just because I try to offer another point of view regarding Gainey. I love ALOT of the things he has done with this team and I love where we are now. And I know that we would not be where we are now had he not made the coaching change. All I am saying is that, in my opinion, Bob Gainey has been cut alot more slack by fans and media because of what he gave the habs as a player and success he had in Dallas. In my opinion, people would not have been near as kind to the GM had he been anyone else.

mdmrules · Member

This argument is pointless... those that don't want to like him will always find reasons not to, no matter how contrived... or they will just SAY they think he is "below average" and refuse to give any legitimate reasons.

And if people were wondering what this post would turn into if they were on a six game losing streak I think that you need read past threads on the same subject... Those that know the guy is for real and is building a good, solid team have always said that... while those that choose to not like anything he does have always said so. Not even a Stanley Cup win could change their minds.

So for those that wish to exaggerate his downfalls... EAT HIS DUST AS HE TAKES THE HABS DEEP INTO THE PLAYOFFS.

plouf · Guru

I think the first poster was quite right when he said a lot of people on this board don't seem to like Gainey. And I agree with wright. Gainey is held to a very high level of accountability. I'm not sure he's been cut that much slack at all. I've seen regular criticism of Gainey even when we are winning. Just because more people like him than not doesn't mean the people who complain about him constantly are more objective.

Muller93 · Guru

mdmrules wrote:

This argument is pointless... those that don't want to like him will always find reasons not to, no matter how contrived... or they will just SAY they think he is "below average" and refuse to give any legitimate reasons. And if people were wondering what this post would turn into if they were on a six game losing streak I think that you need read past threads on the same subject... Those that know the guy is for real and is building a good, solid team have always said that... while those that choose to not like anything he does have always said so. Not even a Stanley Cup win could change their minds. So for those that wish to exaggerate his downfalls... EAT HIS DUST AS HE TAKES THE HABS DEEP INTO THE PLAYOFFS.

Hey mdmrules...great post. I generally find those that dislike Gainey have personal reasons( in the case of Barry...I know, I know you are over the CJ thing...but I still seem to get the impression that things left a bad taste in your mouth). Others, I'm not real sure but...

I truly feel Gainey is building this team and will have the habs solid contenders in 1-2 years( maybe even next year)...so I suggest jumping on the bandwagon now. Expect a disappointing playoff this year( we don't have the weapons to compete with Ottawa/Carolina this year). Hard work or not. But rest easy...