For Barry, on the old Julien and Koivu topics

plouf · Guru

For Barry, on the old Julien and Koivu topics

barry33 · Guru

plouf wrote:

Barry, You think Julien may have been fired prematurely (or let's say, that the players gave up on him prematurely, or that management did)...I kind of agree with you, in retrospect, especially when you point out that some (or a lot) of his decisions were forced by Gainey himself. Also, I can't stand watching this trap s*&t, even if I totally understand that it's probably for the best at this point. Looking around at the coaches who are successful in this league, they've often been given the benefit of a bad season or two or three (look at Lindy Ruff!) when dealing with young or relatively weak lineups. They are part of a long-term plan. When players recognize that the coach has the support of the management, they have to get with the program. My point is that the same patience is due a captain of a team that has really not been that talented for many seasons, especially when the captain has shown in the past his ability to step it up when it counts. This team is still in the process of building, and almost half the lineup is in their first or second season in the NHL. Several areas of the team are still fairly thin (centre and defense stand out). It is not productive to give the captain a vote of confidence with a new contract, and then call him out a few weeks later when he is probably showing signs of meltdown after the Olympics. At least not publicly. As if Koivu doesn't know he's struggling. Arguing for a strictly "what have you done for me lately" approach seems like a contradiction if you are going to defend Julien at the same time. Some of the (totally convincing) statements you have made in Julien's defense would maybe have been labelled excuses by you if they had been used to defend Saku or Kovalev or any other player.

Plouf- I am a habs fan first and foremost and any comments I make, or suggestions, are all aimed at making our beloved team better. My CJ friendship aside, I am not, and never have been, a fan of dumping coaches every year or 2. Your point regarding Lindy Ruff is proof of the pudding. 2 years ago fans in Buffalo called for his head. Management said no. He is a good coach and he is not going anywhere. This sends a very strong message to the players. It says "The coach is running this team and this dressing room and is here to stay". Is Ruff a better coach than he was 2 years ago? No. He is the same guy he has always been. Did Julien have a better than 500 record with the Habs and lead them past the Bruins 2 years ago by fluke? No. He was a good coach then, and is a great coach now.

My hope is that Montreal will stop this ridiculous revolving coach door policy it has been implementing for 10 years. We have gotten rid of some very good coaches. Vignault was a great coach. Therrien, in spite of his personality, is not a bad coach. Julien will be around the league for years to come. If you will recall, at the time Julien was fired I indicated that it would not change the way the team performed and I stand by this. Until recently, we have still been insoncistent effort wise. We still have not had any team cohesiveness. The difference now is that we have consistent goaltending in Huet (that CJ did NOT have the luxury of having) and guys are starting to skate hard. That comes from within.

Nil d · Guru

Great dialogue, you guys!

Alain Vignault was one of my favourite Hab coaches of all time. I thought he was class personified. I can't really comment on his coaching skills - running practices, line management, etc. - since I don't know enough about it to say. But he always supported his players publicly and was very even-tempered and polite with the press. Maybe too much so - add a dash of, say, Pat Burns' fire to him and he'd have been dynamite.

Barry's buddy Claude is also one of my favourites, for the same reasons. A very classy guy.

But with these modern-day prima donnas and egos, I wonder if an Iron Fist approach might not work better - a la Toe Blake?

barry33 · Guru

Nil d wrote:

Great dialogue, you guys! Alain Vignault was one of my favourite Hab coaches of all time. I thought he was class personified. I can't really comment on his coaching skills - running practices, line management, etc. - since I don't know enough about it to say. But he always supported his players publicly and was very even-tempered and polite with the press. Maybe too much so - add a dash of, say, Pat Burns' fire to him and he'd have been dynamite. Barry's buddy Claude is also one of my favourites, for the same reasons. A very classy guy. But with these modern-day prima donnas and egos, I wonder if an Iron Fist approach might not work better - a la Toe Blake?

Let me just add this..you do NOT win a Mem Cup as a coach (as CJ and Vignault did) without knowing what you are doing. These guys are VERY good coaches. They know the difference between a power play and penalty kill. But sometimes it is simply the situation or team makeup that does them in. To Gainey I say, as long as carbo looks like he knows what he is doing...KEEP HIM AROUND!

24 Rings · Guru

With all due respect to CJ, barry, he's gone. Do we really need to keep bringing him up? No one questions his abilities as a coach. He essentially took the fall for a team that was severely struggling.

I do think that this current staff will get it done. I agree that there have been too many coaching changes, but I think that this team is finally starting to get it right. A trip to playoffs is the starting point.

Desi · Senior Member

I remember when Vignault was hired they asid he'd been coach of a team called the Quebec Harfangs -- a junior team I assumed. Does anybody know what a Harfang is -- or is it just a made-up name? I always wondered...

Les Canadiens sont la

barry33 · Guru

24 Rings wrote:

With all due respect to CJ, barry, he's gone. Do we really need to keep bringing him up? No one questions his abilities as a coach. He essentially took the fall for a team that was severely struggling. I do think that this current staff will get it done. I agree that there have been too many coaching changes, but I think that this team is finally starting to get it right. A trip to playoffs is the starting point.

Uhmmm I did not bring him Up 24, I was simply responding to a post of Plouf's. My point, however, remains the same. Stop firing coaches, get some stability in this orgainization, and hold the players accountable. I believe that as habs fans, this is what is best for our team.

24 Rings · Guru

barry33 wrote:

Uhmmm I did not bring him Up 24, I was simply responding to a post of Plouf's.

My apologies this time, I was wrong. It just seems to me that sometimes you like to insert CJ into the conversation. Till next time, barry....I'll be watching...

Nil d · Guru

Desi wrote:

I remember when Vignault was hired they asid he'd been coach of a team called the Quebec Harfangs -- a junior team I assumed. Does anybody know what a Harfang is -- or is it just a made-up name? I always wondered... Les Canadiens sont la

A harfang is a type of owl; I believe a Snowy Owl.

Nil d

Desi · Senior Member

Thanks Nil. I suppose I could've looked it up, but I figured someone on this site would know the answer.

Les Canadiens sont la

heet_150 · Guru

Nil d wrote:

Does anybody know what a Harfang is -- or is it just a made-up name? A harfang is a type of owl; I believe a Snowy Owl. Nil d

Correctamundo, Nil:

Nil d · Guru

heet_150 wrote:

Nil d wrote: Does anybody know what a Harfang is -- or is it just a made-up name? A harfang is a type of owl; I believe a Snowy Owl. Nil d Correctamundo, Nil:

I recently joined the Board of the Nova Scotia Nature Trust; I have to know these things!

(There's a plug for the NSTN - the Chairman would be proud of me.)

plouf · Guru

And for the record. I TOTALLY agree that constantly changing coaches has hurt this organization. (Same goes for prematurely running players who are leaders out of town, which has its own nasty history on this team.)

More Therrien would have been fine by me, quite frankly (I know that's not a popular sentiment, but hey, he could yell at people at least). More Vigneault. Certainly more Julien. I think all those guys had the ability to turn this team around.

To build a team we need some stability.

rwp2le · Guru

Any of you guys seen the clips of Roy as a coach? Man I haven't seen a coach with fire like that in a long, long time. He looks good back there, to bad he will never be our coach.

The Kahuna · Guru

Never say never...he sure looked good behind the bench though, didn't he!

Habtastic · Guru

I liked Vigneault a lot. I also liked Julien a lot. I do believe though that Gainey was waiting for an opportunity to remove Julien and he found it this year. I think he has wanted Carboneau for some time, but just couldn't fire Julien with things going so well before. I also believe that he will hire Robinson as an assistant once he steps down after the season.
As for our D, I don't believe it is thin. I believe it is young and lacking one more horse. I am expecting that Gainey will fix that this summer, as well as get us a center and another right-shooting winger.
I would also never say never about Roy becoming our coach...

Habtastic

AWOL · Veteran Member

I also have a bit of a hard time with the revolving door of coaches. My alltime favorite Habs coach is Jacques Demers. I was practically in mourning when we lost him. I also concur that Vignault and Julien are tremendous coaches. Hell, wasn't AV a candidate for coach of the year at one point? I hope that with Gainey at the helm, there will be some stability in the organization.

On another note, the Leafs appear to be imploding here in TO. The press is all over management, coaching and even individual players for the terrible season they have had. One interesting note is that the media has been lambasting the fans for unconditionally supporting that pathetic club. In montreal, we are critcized for putting way too much pressure on the team, where in TO they are criticized for not pressuring the team enough.

barry33 · Guru

Habtastic wrote:

I liked Vigneault a lot. I also liked Julien a lot. I do believe though that Gainey was waiting for an opportunity to remove Julien and he found it this year. I think he has wanted Carboneau for some time, but just couldn't fire Julien with things going so well before. I also believe that he will hire Robinson as an assistant once he steps down after the season. As for our D, I don't believe it is thin. I believe it is young and lacking one more horse. I am expecting that Gainey will fix that this summer, as well as get us a center and another right-shooting winger. I would also never say never about Roy becoming our coach... Habtastic

Hey...as I said..I do not care as long as my habs win!!! They can get Pee Wee Herman to coach for all I care.