Ribs recent comments on Saku's leadership

Kendich · Veteran Member

RE: Ribs recent comments on Saku's leadership

plouf · Guru

barry33 wrote:

plouf wrote:
barry33 wrote: MrsHab wrote: My comment was not intended to knock Koivu and I am not questionning his priorities. Playing on an Olympic team is far different than playing in the NHL. Please don't include me in your opinion of Koivu. My comment was directed at Ribeiro only. This is the point this board has come to. EVen Mrs Hab, who never has a bad thing to say about anyone..is afraid to make a comment that even remotely questions Saks' effort or performance. She had to come back with a disclaimer in her next post fearing that the vultures would swoop down on her. Thats ok Mrs Hab. I AM questioning his priorities. Barry, do you really think Mrs.Hab is afraid that the pro-Saku folks will attack her? Who are you referring to? Give us a little credit here.

My point is that everytime anyone on this board says anything that is not totally glowing about our Captain you need to endure about 20 posts with the tone of "how dare you" and "you have no idea what you are talking about". The fact is that I am the first one to praise Koivu, Kovalev, or Ribiero for that matter when they are doing well or trying. But the fact that Koivu or Kovalev have done great things in the past does not make them immune to criticism. The fact is that Koivu has not had a good couple of months with the Habs has not been good. He is close to being a minus player now and has taken numerous lazy and stupid penalties, which Gainey has pointed out publicly.
Kovalev and Koivu need to step up if we are to make the playoffs. Saks now does not have the contract issue to worry about so that should keep his mind solely on hockey. As far a sthe underachievers on the team like Ribs and Souray, well they need to step it up as well. But this will happen if our 2 big guns start putting it together.

I don't buy this Barry and I'm getting as tired of hearing this particular harangue as you are apparently tired of hearing about Koivu.

If people give the Koivu issue a rest, perhaps they will see less people defending him vigorously. Until then they will find people disagreeing with them. Many people consider him the most important player on the team and undeserving of being the focus of so much criticism. Simple as that.

MrsHab · Veteran Member

AB Habman wrote:

Mrs Hab, I didn't quote you, I was merely refering to your comment of Rib's comment about it being potentially misconstrued when I stated "this comment like MrsHab stated if true than could turn into two positives". I was agreeing with that part of your post and that is why I didn't quote your whole post! If I somehow offended you, I'm sorry!

No offense taken....just wanted to clarify what I was trying to say....It's just like email versus the telephone, isn't it? Sometimes it's easier to say things than to write them.

Bottom line....we are all Hab fans and right now, kind of frustrated...let's just keep on cheering them on. All is not over by a long shot.

AB Habman · Guru

barry33 wrote:

plouf wrote: barry33 wrote: MrsHab wrote: My comment was not intended to knock Koivu and I am not questionning his priorities. Playing on an Olympic team is far different than playing in the NHL. Please don't include me in your opinion of Koivu. My comment was directed at Ribeiro only. This is the point this board has come to. EVen Mrs Hab, who never has a bad thing to say about anyone..is afraid to make a comment that even remotely questions Saks' effort or performance. She had to come back with a disclaimer in her next post fearing that the vultures would swoop down on her. Thats ok Mrs Hab. I AM questioning his priorities. Barry, do you really think Mrs.Hab is afraid that the pro-Saku folks will attack her? Who are you referring to? Give us a little credit here. My point is that everytime anyone on this board says anything that is not totally glowing about our Captain you need to endure about 20 posts with the tone of "how dare you" and "you have no idea what you are talking about". The fact is that I am the first one to praise Koivu, Kovalev, or Ribiero for that matter when they are doing well or trying. But the fact that Koivu or Kovalev have done great things in the past does not make them immune to criticism. The fact is that Koivu has not had a good couple of months with the Habs has not been good. He is close to being a minus player now and has taken numerous lazy and stupid penalties, which Gainey has pointed out publicly. Kovalev and Koivu need to step up if we are to make the playoffs. Saks now does not have the contract issue to worry about so that should keep his mind solely on hockey. As far a sthe underachievers on the team like Ribs and Souray, well they need to step it up as well. But this will happen if our 2 big guns start putting it together.

I agree Barry! if a post comes even close to being critical of Saks, then the personal bashing starts up.

I strongly feel my posts are based on valid points. Rather than a rebuttal, I get personally bashed. It's so obvious to me that Saks hasn't played with the passion as at the games this season.

Rather than saying I was dropped on my head as a kid, I would respect a rebuttal.

Just because I sound critical of Sak's play this season, doesn't mean I'm bashing him as you are me.

How would these Saks fanatics like it if every time they exagerated how great Saks is(which happens alot) I would call them stupid! Well dont worry about it because than it would turn into being just as juvenile as Saks and Ribs BS.

Oh, by the way John, my post have decreased alot during the break because the Habs haven't been playing and to me the Olympics aren't as important. Your attempt at another personal bash didn't make sense.

Start reading my whole posts rather than taking bits out of context because of your sensitive nature on feeling you have to be Saks protector. Is he paying you as his personal security or admirer? This is a sports forum and Saks is a hockey player, is he not?

Answer this, how would you feel if Gainey came out and said, "it's a shame that Saks and Kovy bring more leadership to the olympics than to the Canadiens because I'm paying them millions of dollars". Maybe the core players need to be called out if they're not performing up to snuff! The part I don't agree with is the hypocrissy of Ribs stating it. My point is though that a good old fashion challenge for the boys to prove where their priorities lie, could go a long ways to making the playoffs! We will know this by how Gainey reacts to the whole situation!

JohnM · Guru

I used to take your posts more seriously AB until I realized you have a hatred deep down against Saku. You were there last year bashing him all year and then when Ribs pulled his little move in the playoffs you were silent. Once again this year, you were quiet when Saks started off well, then the bashing started again.

Your backhanded posts about Saku do irritate me. He has been a Hab for 10 years, he's the captain and one of the only ones who cares every night. He went through cancer and came back to help the team in the playoffs. He lead the team again over Boston in the last playoffs. He is leading the team this year again. So everytime you bash him, you are bashing the Habs. He will be a Hab for life as I stated before he was signed....

You are the kind of fan no team needs or wants. You jump on the bandwagon when things are good and watch out when things aren't going so great. The Habs are in 8th spot with some really poor goaltending and alot of players not playing well. Not bad if you ask me...

Muller93 · Guru

JohnM wrote:

I used to take your posts more seriously AB until I realized you have a hatred deep down against Saku. You were there last year bashing him all year and then when Ribs pulled his little move in the playoffs you were silent. Once again this year, you were quiet when Saks started off well, then the bashing started again. Your backhanded posts about Saku do irritate me. He has been a Hab for 10 years, he's the captain and one of the only ones who cares every night. He went through cancer and came back to help the team in the playoffs. He lead the team again over Boston in the last playoffs. He is leading the team this year again. So everytime you bash him, you are bashing the Habs. He will be a Hab for life as I stated before he was signed.... You are the kind of fan no team needs or wants. You jump on the bandwagon when things are good and watch out when things aren't going so great. The Habs are in 8th spot with some really poor goaltending and alot of players not playing well. Not bad if you ask me...

Bottom line guys is that Koivu has been the most consistent forward on the habs this year. He is an eagle flying with a bunch of ostriches. If ribs/Bonk/Zednik turned it around...we would have a TEAM...a TEAM!! As for the naysayers around here:

AB's posts are anything but "valid". It's ludicrus for AB to say we are taking his posts "out of context". Maybe one post we may take out of context...not hundreds. I have a bit of education...I can read the general tone in its written form..give me a break AB...

Barry's posts are what he truly believes. I respect that. Where Barry and I disagree is what kind of year Koivu is having. Barry thinks Koivu can do better. I question what he means by that. I think Koivu gives a solid effort game in game out. He will get his .75 points per game and that is all...as per a Muller type. He will play a solid defensive game. He will play a speed game. He will play a grind game. And he will lead those capable of being led. I anticipate Barry's rebuttal...but he will be wrong...again....IMO of course Barry

Barry also thinks that Koivu wants to play with only his chosen players...I doubt that. Do you really think Bob Gainey would reward that kind of nonsense with the big contract? Come on Barry...what's clouding your judgement...Bob Gainey is no idiot. neither is carbonneau...unless you think they are? Do you barry?

And-o's posts are always consistent. I truly think he only wants a solid first line center. I think he is right....except I would say a real second line center...but whatever. I do think And-o harbours some resentment towards Koivu other than pure hockey related...but I am not sure what it is. His posts amuse me at least.

Saku11 is actually And-o anyway.

And finally....can anyone tell me why I would be biased on this topic? I have no reason to pick Koivu as a personal hero. I just think most of the people who are Koivu naysayers are that way for personal reasons rather than hockey reasons...that is what is frustrating.

-- Edited by Muller93 at 18:53, 2006-02-26

AB Habman · Guru

JohnM wrote:

I used to take your posts more seriously AB until I realized you have a hatred deep down against Saku. You were there last year bashing him all year and then when Ribs pulled his little move in the playoffs you were silent. Once again this year, you were quiet when Saks started off well, then the bashing started again. Your backhanded posts about Saku do irritate me. He has been a Hab for 10 years, he's the captain and one of the only ones who cares every night. He went through cancer and came back to help the team in the playoffs. He lead the team again over Boston in the last playoffs. He is leading the team this year again. So everytime you bash him, you are bashing the Habs. He will be a Hab for life as I stated before he was signed.... You are the kind of fan no team needs or wants. You jump on the bandwagon when things are good and watch out when things aren't going so great. The Habs are in 8th spot with some really poor goaltending and alot of players not playing well. Not bad if you ask me...

That's my point, as soon as you feel I'm being critical of Saks, you become subjective and too emotionally sensitive. You conveniently back it up by saying I'm not being serious today but I feel I'm being constructive.

Again, answer my question about what if Gainey challenged the core players with the same sort of comment? Would that totally anger you the same way?

I think the problem lies in who you think is leading the Habs this season. You say Saks and I don't think he has been their best player.

Also if you go back to the last playoffs, when Saks, Kovy and Theo had a few strong games I commented on how solid they were. When Ribs played hurt, I commented on that also as well as saying that their line needed to play better. Don't paint me with your hate brush. Again, I and a few others never said we hate Saks but are just being critical of him. There's a big difference. We don't go around saying that you guys are in love with him, do we?

If you answer my question on my above post about Gainey, you may find that you agree with me that it would be much easier to swallow if Gainey made the comment rather than Ribs as that is too hypocritical.

This is my last post on this topic now especially if you continue on this same track that we've been on too often.

Let's stick to the starting thread about the comments that were made on Saks and Kovy before this becomes too personal. It's all about what our expectations are on Saks. You feel he has met them and he has been the best player and I don't. I would respect your opinion if you would base it on a rebuttal rather than a silly comment about me being stupid.

Nil d · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

I would respect your opinion if you would base it on a rebuttal rather than a silly comment about me being stupid.

That sounds like a mature attitude for us all to take.

JohnM · Guru

Gainey actually did make a statement to Saku and that was to sign him to a long term deal. That only proves what me and other posters have been saying all along. Saku is the man...

Pablo Honey · Veteran Member

Let's look at the facts.

1) Ribs is actually right.

2) Ribs is the last person (next to Mr. Propecia) who should be calling out the captain on his inconsistency.

What bothers me is that Ribs did it and not a guy with more credibility. If such a bold statement is going to be made, it must be made by a player who is consistent and has credibility (Ribs isn't an NHL player... at least not a real one), in order to bolster said statement.

I DO believe that Saks isn't playing up to par. We're paying him millions, and he isn't playing up to his price tag. But it's sad that Ribs of all people needs to come out and make that statement. Why couldn't Rivet do it? Or better yet, Gainey. It's something that NEEDS to be adressed.

No Hab should be immune from criticism, even if they have the same fan-favourite status as Saks. Everyone needs to be held accountable. By the same token, said accountability should not be dished out by a 155 pound "centre" with no real game.

plouf · Guru

Pablo Honey wrote:

Let's look at the facts.
1) Ribs is actually right.
2) Ribs is the last person (next to Mr. Propecia) who should be calling out the captain on his inconsistency.
What bothers me is that Ribs did it and not a guy with more credibility. If such a bold statement is going to be made, it must be made by a player who is consistent and has credibility (Ribs isn't an NHL player... at least not a real one), in order to bolster said statement.
I DO believe that Saks isn't playing up to par. We're paying him millions, and he isn't playing up to his price tag. But it's sad that Ribs of all people needs to come out and make that statement. Why couldn't Rivet do it? Or better yet, Gainey. It's something that NEEDS to be adressed.
No Hab should be immune from criticism, even if they have the same fan-favourite status as Saks. Everyone needs to be held accountable. By the same token, said accountability should not be dished out by a 155 pound "centre" with no real game.

Totally agree with you. If someone is going to call out Saks it cannot be Ribeiro. Let's just hope Ribeiro didn't actually say that.

AB Habman · Guru

Pablo Honey wrote:

Let's look at the facts. 1) Ribs is actually right. 2) Ribs is the last person (next to Mr. Propecia) who should be calling out the captain on his inconsistency. What bothers me is that Ribs did it and not a guy with more credibility. If such a bold statement is going to be made, it must be made by a player who is consistent and has credibility (Ribs isn't an NHL player... at least not a real one), in order to bolster said statement. I DO believe that Saks isn't playing up to par. We're paying him millions, and he isn't playing up to his price tag. But it's sad that Ribs of all people needs to come out and make that statement. Why couldn't Rivet do it? Or better yet, Gainey. It's something that NEEDS to be adressed. No Hab should be immune from criticism, even if they have the same fan-favourite status as Saks. Everyone needs to be held accountable. By the same token, said accountability should not be dished out by a 155 pound "centre" with no real game.

Your're bang on!

barry33 · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

Pablo Honey wrote: Let's look at the facts. 1) Ribs is actually right. 2) Ribs is the last person (next to Mr. Propecia) who should be calling out the captain on his inconsistency. What bothers me is that Ribs did it and not a guy with more credibility. If such a bold statement is going to be made, it must be made by a player who is consistent and has credibility (Ribs isn't an NHL player... at least not a real one), in order to bolster said statement. I DO believe that Saks isn't playing up to par. We're paying him millions, and he isn't playing up to his price tag. But it's sad that Ribs of all people needs to come out and make that statement. Why couldn't Rivet do it? Or better yet, Gainey. It's something that NEEDS to be adressed. No Hab should be immune from criticism, even if they have the same fan-favourite status as Saks. Everyone needs to be held accountable. By the same token, said accountability should not be dished out by a 155 pound "centre" with no real game. Your're bang on!

Well put..the bottom line is that all of this "he said she said" stuff coming out of the Habs dressingroom is a symptom of the Malaise that has been in there for a couple years. The sad part is, that if this is not resolved, and SOON, then not only do we kiss doing anything in the playoffs good bye, we kiss making the playoffs good bye. The next 25 games is going to be a war. And no one want sto go to war and fight in the trenches with people thay can't stand.

24 Rings · Guru

One bad thing about this site is the only posts that get significant traffic are the Koivu posts and people repeating the same rhetoric they posted last time someone started a Koivu post. This thing has been beat to death so many times it is just plain boring. You are all arguing for nothing because no one is changing their opinion.

FACT - Koivs is our captain for the foreseeable future and we have him for 3 more years. No one on this team will supplant him as long as he wears the RW&B.

NO he hasn't had a great season and I totally expect/demand more of him, like what I saw during the Olympics.

YES Ribs is a little sh*t and a crummy hockey player and we would trade him if we could.

If you think the fact he is the Captian is the problem with this club, you don't know anything about hockey. No one even questioned the Moose's desire and leadership in NY after 6 futile years of bombing out of the play-offs.

There are so many more interesting things to discuss than the Koivu debate, which can never be won by anyone.

AB Habman · Guru

24 Rings wrote:

One bad thing about this site is the only posts that get significant traffic are the Koivu posts and people repeating the same rhetoric they posted last time someone started a Koivu post. This thing has been beat to death so many times it is just plain boring. You are all arguing for nothing because no one is changing their opinion. FACT - Koivs is our captain for the foreseeable future and we have him for 3 more years. No one on this team will supplant him as long as he wears the RW&B. NO he hasn't had a great season and I totally expect/demand more of him, like what I saw during the Olympics. YES Ribs is a little sh*t and a crummy hockey player and we would trade him if we could. If you think the fact he is the Captian is the problem with this club, you don't know anything about hockey. No one even questioned the Moose's desire and leadership in NY after 6 futile years of bombing out of the play-offs. There are so many more interesting things to discuss than the Koivu debate, which can never be won by anyone.

I respect what you're saying but it should be a democratic right to express how some of us feel even if it's negative criticism without being personally ganged up on by the same posters rather than a rebuttal!

It's just as frustrating to me also when you feel you're being constructive about a topic that is relevent to him and it turns into another big circus because it's about a guy who some treassure! This is a sports forum and no player should be exempt from discussion! I respect their views without the "Oh you love him crap or your stupid to say that". I would appreciate the same respect back even if some don't agree!

PS. The Albertans did well at the games! We could use their speed skating abilities!

24 Rings · Guru

I'm with you, AB. While everyone does have their right to say whatever they want, the point I was tryng to make is that people have exercised that right over this topic so many times that it is a moot point.

I love stirring the pot as much as the next guy, but the Koivs topic is a no win situation whether you love him or hate him. I guess I was trying to encourage other topics because this one rears its ugly head every few days and frankly, this topic bores the hell out of me. Even topics that start out on some other issue turn into the Koivs haters vs. lovers and we all know where members' allegiances lie at this point.

I was trying not to take a side here but for the sake of changing the argument, Koivs numbers aren't that bad at all (relative to he rest), he leads the team with 39 points. How come everyones little darling Micheal Ryder with 10 more games played has 3 less points AND with more time on ice? Also he is -5 while Koivs is even. It is funny how Ryder escapes the discussion. I for one would love to hear how the masses stand on his play this season and why.

AB Habman · Guru

24 Rings wrote:

I'm with you, AB. While everyone does have their right to say whatever they want, the point I was tryng to make is that people have exercised that right over this topic so many times that it is a moot point. I love stirring the pot as much as the next guy, but the Koivs topic is a no win situation whether you love him or hate him. I guess I was trying to encourage other topics because this one rears its ugly head every few days and frankly, this topic bores the hell out of me. Even topics that start out on some other issue turn into the Koivs haters vs. lovers and we all know where members' allegiances lie at this point. I was trying not to take a side here but for the sake of changing the argument, Koivs numbers aren't that bad at all (relative to he rest), he leads the team with 39 points. How come everyones little darling Micheal Ryder with 10 more games played has 3 less points AND with more time on ice? Also he is -5 while Koivs is even. It is funny how Ryder escapes the discussion. I for one would love to hear how the masses stand on his play this season and why.

Ribs sucks this season and has underproduced. I'm sure everyone is on the same page on that!

As for Ryder, I have mentioned that he has stalled in his development and is becoming one dimensional! But in saying that, he's only a second year player and I wouldn't give up on him yet.

JohnM · Guru

So AB what you are pretty much saying is this team sucks, why are we fans of them?

Gotta agree with 24, the Saku topic has been beaten to death. Give it a rest.

Capitaine Extraordinaire

plouf · Guru

I agree with you 24 (speaking as one of the most regular and ranting Koivu debaters). Probably nobody noticed, but a couple of weeks ago I went almost a week without mentioning Koivu, trying to get onto some other topic. Sure enough, the debates started up, somebody got me riled up and I was sucked in. We definitely do need another topic around here.

Ok, on that note, I'll take you up on the Ryder offering.

My feeling is I'm pleasantly surprised about Ryder. I seriously thought he was just the type of player to suffer a sophomore slump, especially on an inconsistent team.
He's going to score 30 goals, for one thing. And nobody else on this team is going to touch that number.

There's a lot of room for improvement, however:
-passing; sometimes he looks brilliant, way more often he just hogs the puck or passes to noone. I like that he shoots, but sometimes he needs to do some other things well.

-consistency. For one thing he has to always skate and use his body.

-all-around game: Ryder could actually be an all-around winger, a first-liner who scores, grinds along the boards, gets back on defense, and plays the body. He's actually a great checker when the spirit moves him. But we haven't seen enough of that this season.

He's a young, enthusiastic player. Probably his bad luck he's in a dressing room not as fun as he is. Hopefully he'll help keep things loose for many years to come. You've gotta love the guy.

-- Edited by plouf at 20:04, 2006-02-27

AB Habman · Guru

JohnM wrote:

So AB what you are pretty much saying is this team sucks, why are we fans of them? Gotta agree with 24, the Saku topic has been beaten to death. Give it a rest. Capitaine Extraordinaire

I shouldn't of generalized. I'm sure we all agree that Ribs has been playing better of late with Kovy!

JohnM · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

I shouldn't of generalized. I'm sure we all agree that Ribs has been playing better of late with Kovy!

No you pretty much were bang on when you said Ribs has sucked this year.

plouf · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

JohnM wrote:
So AB what you are pretty much saying is this team sucks, why are we fans of them? Gotta agree with 24, the Saku topic has been beaten to death. Give it a rest. Capitaine Extraordinaire
I shouldn't of generalized. I'm sure we all agree that Ribs has been playing better of late with Kovy!

It's true. Ribs has been playing better of late. 0 goals, 4 assists in 12 games. Having Kovalev on his line sure has helped. And though he's still the worst of our four centres defensively, he's picked it up quite a bit. I think he's ahead of Pleks in faceoff % too.

heet_150 · Guru

barry33 wrote:

My point is that everytime anyone on this board says anything that is not totally glowing about our Captain you need to endure about 20 posts with the tone of "how dare you" and "you have no idea what you are talking about". The fact is that I am the first one to praise Koivu, Kovalev, or Ribiero for that matter when they are doing well or trying. But the fact that Koivu or Kovalev have done great things in the past does not make them immune to criticism. The fact is that Koivu has not had a good couple of months with the Habs has not been good. He is close to being a minus player now and has taken numerous lazy and stupid penalties, which Gainey has pointed out publicly. Kovalev and Koivu need to step up if we are to make the playoffs. Saks now does not have the contract issue to worry about so that should keep his mind solely on hockey. As far a sthe underachievers on the team like Ribs and Souray, well they need to step it up as well. But this will happen if our 2 big guns start putting it together.

And when someone, perhaps even you, praises the Captain, they have to endure the "Big deal, it's only one game" or "Where was he last week" snips back from a few Koivu haters. It works both ways. Some members will start several posts in one day to knock Koivu or to start the childish, back and forth "ya-ha" - "na-ah" crap that fills this board. I generally make it a point to ignore the posts by some of those folks, but, God help me, I'm starved for NHL hockey, and more specifically the Habs.