I HATE TO GO ON

Muller93 · Guru

I HATE TO GO ON

JohnM · Guru

Saku is the man as most of us have been saying all along. I am truly proud he is a Hab.

Go Saku Go!!! GO HABS GO!!!

barry33 · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

But Koivu's performance in this olymppics is pure proof he is a number one center. I mean who can argue that now? huh? Goal and assist against Russia. It shows you what most of us have been saying all along...with proper back-up singers...he is a a number one center. Oh, right...he is TRYING harder for Finland...phuff...give me a break on that one. We predicted this one though eh boys? If he does well, he is an idiot for trying too hard and burning himself out...if he sucks, he is not a number one center...What great fan support...

Muller once again it is all a matter of interpretation on here., You have your interpretation that is clouded by your bias..you see only what you want to see. And I have mine..and in ways mine is biased as well. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. The effort I have seen and the desire from MANY at the Olympics , for the 10th time, has nothing to do with linemates. Results are linemate oriented. Today I saw Koivu go to the net hard 3 times. If you were to look at tape of his last 3 months in a Habs uniform you may have seen that once. The night he scored in OT against Toronto. And if you do not want to take my word for it, listen to the broacasters. Micheal Whalen of Off the Record said ..and I quote " Where has this Koivu been all season"? Bob Mackenzie said " If Kovalev played half as hard for Montreal this season as he has for Russia, they would not be fighting for a playoff spot".

I like to think I have been around this game long enough to recognize an effort when I see one. How you or anyone else on here can relate putting out to better linemates baffles me.

JohnM · Guru

I think it's called team effort, not individual effort. The whole Finnish team is playing hard, if you had the same thing happening with the Habs we wouldn't be complaining now.

In the end CJ just wasn't able to get that out of the boys and BG is just starting to get it out of them.

If you listen to the game analysis, Finland is putting on a show when it comes to being coached. They have a game plan that everyone buys into and are playing with.

Gotta give credit where it's due.

Muller93 · Guru

barry33 wrote:

How you or anyone else on here can relate putting out to better linemates baffles me.

Barry. I know you played hockey. Not to discredit anything you say but, I understand you are a goalie?

I played as a forward in some competive hockey. I was a goal scorer in my time. Over my years of playing the game as a goal scorer( not a grinder/fighter/defensive forward), I noticed how hard it was to produce points on weaker teams. Even I would feel like I was lacking in effort during those years...it's like trying to run in mud...

Buy when I was on stronger teams, those points just rolled in. I would feel the momentum and it would appear that I was trying harder. I alway knew I was not really trying harder...it's just much more difficult to get er' going with weaker teams. And most of the habs this year have blown( Bonk, Ribby, Zed..).

Johab · Guru

Id have to disagree on you with Ribby, he hasnt been flashy, but its not like he isnt producing. He is only i think 7 points back of koivu.

Ando · Guru

Hey guys...Finland has followed their game-plan perfectly - good on them...boring as heck...but good on them!

And-o agreed 100% with Saku's comments made to the CBC about the Finns not having nearly the fire-power of Canada, Russia or even the U.S. and Sweden...so playing good defensive hockey (aka the trap) was necessary for them to even compete!

Anyway...And-o just wants Saku to show this level of interest and intensity next week while wearing the CH!

Clearly playing with great players has rejuvenated Saku's game...but isn't Kovy great?...how bout when Recchi was a Hab???....Damphousse???...Turgeon???...Muller???...Corson??? (etc, etc, etc). I think many of those names are fairly good players!?!?!?

But...regardless of what anyone says or thinks...the bottomline for And-o is...if Saku tallies only one point in his next seven NHL games (like he did in his previous seven) - no playoffs! Does that sound fair and accurate????

Johab · Guru

Absolutely And-o. Maybe not the playoffs part, but it will definately be fair to critisize Koivu if he stops producing after the Olympics. And you cant say its because of his teammates. He has fricken Kovalev!!! And i expect the exact from him as i do Koivu. If they can go out and preform theyt way the just did, there is no reason why they cant for the CH. And ALSO, they are doing this against the best players in the world, yet they cant do it in a regular NHL game? Not much sense here

Muller93 · Guru

Johab wrote:

Id have to disagree on you with Ribby, he hasnt been flashy, but its not like he isnt producing. He is only i think 7 points back of koivu.

7 points back and what...minus 15? They guy would need to be 27 points ahead to make up for his complete lack of contribution otherwise. Good lord, when all you bring to the table is supposed offense...you've gotta be doing way better than that.

plouf · Guru

Johab wrote:

Absolutely And-o. Maybe not the playoffs part, but it will definately be fair to critisize Koivu if he stops producing after the Olympics. And you cant say its because of his teammates. He has fricken Kovalev!!! And i expect the exact from him as i do Koivu. If they can go out and preform theyt way the just did, there is no reason why they cant for the CH. And ALSO, they are doing this against the best players in the world, yet they cant do it in a regular NHL game? Not much sense here

It's probably not an effort thing, but there are many possible reasons, including that Saku may just be less effective on the smaller surface.

We've all seen Saku have this kind of impact in the NHL before, however (I'd argue the first 25 games of this season), but I think confidence in one's team is key for an offensive player (especially a centre, who has those pesky defensive responsibilities).

It's hard to know whether or not to just play your game, whether to try to do extra (sometimes translating into "trying to do too much"), etc... there are a lot of things that go into it. Sometimes it IS effort, or being in a mental funk, no doubt. But I don't think it's effort in this case, because with Saku extra effort doesn't necessarily translate into a better game. In fact I'd argue that sometimes he does better when he doesn't try to carry the team. Saku's effort is always high anyway. It's more a question of effectiveness, execution, confidence, meshing with teammates, etc.... At least that's my opinion on this one.

Muller93 · Guru

Johab wrote:

Absolutely And-o. Maybe not the playoffs part, but it will definately be fair to critisize Koivu if he stops producing after the Olympics. And you cant say its because of his teammates. He has fricken Kovalev!!! And i expect the exact from him as i do Koivu. If they can go out and preform theyt way the just did, there is no reason why they cant for the CH. And ALSO, they are doing this against the best players in the world, yet they cant do it in a regular NHL game? Not much sense here

Johab/And-o. You could have Thornton/Sakic/Kovalev on a team. It does not matter if the rest of the team bites.

You say Koivu has Kovalev and visa vers as if that should be enough...uh uh. With Ribby as the second line center and Zednik stinkin it up like he is, the habs will be luckey to get a point per game out of these two...and it has very little to do with effort.

If the performances of Ribby/Zednik/Bonk don't improve...I predict Koivu amd Kovalev will average .75 points per game. And people on here will suggest that they are not playing as well as they did in the olympics...thats garbage. It's a team game and has everything to do with how the team plays... and subsequently momentum

With theo/Ribby/Zednik/Bonk playing like they have...no momentum.

plouf · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Johab wrote:
Absolutely And-o. Maybe not the playoffs part, but it will definately be fair to critisize Koivu if he stops producing after the Olympics. And you cant say its because of his teammates. He has fricken Kovalev!!! And i expect the exact from him as i do Koivu. If they can go out and preform theyt way the just did, there is no reason why they cant for the CH. And ALSO, they are doing this against the best players in the world, yet they cant do it in a regular NHL game? Not much sense here

Johab/And-o. You could have Thornton/Sakic/Kovalev on a team. It does not matter if the rest of the team bites.
You say Koivu has Kovalev and visa vers as if that should be enough...uh uh. With Ribby as the second line center and Zednik stinkin it up like he is, the habs will be luckey to get a point per game out of these two...and it has very little to do with effort.
If the performances of Ribby/Zednik/Bonk don't improve...I predict Koivu amd Kovalev will average .75 points per game. And people on here will suggest that they are not playing as well as they did in the olympics...thats garbage. It's a team game and has everything to do with how the team plays... and subsequently momentum
With theo/Ribby/Zednik/Bonk playing like they have...no momentum.

Irony of ironies.

Even at this moment, here we are defending Koivu from criticism again?

Koivu-haters, please give it a rest while the guy wins his olympic medal (without "big brother" Rivet I might add)?

Muller93 · Guru

plouf wrote:

Irony of ironies. Even at this moment, here we are defending Koivu from criticism again? Koivu-haters, please give it a rest while the guy wins his olympic medal (without "big brother" Rivet I might add)?

Typical though eh? Koivu will win either a silver or gold as "captain" of the Finnish team, but he is not much of a leader though...o----k? I wonder if Rivet has been in the stands for moral support? that must be it...

The guy is a leader...he is the habs leading scorer...and he is the habs most versitile player...end of story really IMO

AB Habman · Guru

The Finns didn't need motivation or a Captain! This little CD look-a-like medal with the hole in it, is very important to them! That C could of been worn by their trainer and it wouldn't of made a difference!

What do you think guys like Kovy and Saks have been saving themselves all season for? While their bread and butter team has been struggling to make the playoffs, the boys turn it on just in time to win a pretty medal!

Their play has been pathetic compared to now, don't you all think?

AB Habman · Guru

Also, for those that don't want to admit how important Rivet is, who is at home getting the boys focused and worrying about the stretch run because the special boys may be tired when they get back from their games!

Rivet will never make the millions for his leadership, but his satisfaction will come when and if he ever hoists the Cup! He'll be the happiest guy on the planet!

davidb · Guru

Ya waits till he comes back He will not put up the numbers then. Its all for his country and the hell with the Habs

Muller93 · Guru

davidb wrote:

Ya waits till he comes back He will not put up the numbers then. Its all for his country and the hell with the Habs

He wont put up the numbers because the habs lack the ability to provide adequate back up support offensively...thanks to Ribby being hailed as the next great flying frenchman...

Give the habs a real second line center...then you will see Koivu and Kovalev tear it up.

Until then...the naysayers just wont get it...either too thick or biased...one or the other.

IMO of course.

plouf · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

Also, for those that don't want to admit how important Rivet is, who is at home getting the boys focused and worrying about the stretch run because the special boys may be tired when they get back from their games!
Rivet will never make the millions for his leadership, but his satisfaction will come when and if he ever hoists the Cup! He'll be the happiest guy on the planet!

Who are these people who don't admit how important Rivet is? I think you need to re-read all those posts on the Rivet topic.

barry33 · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Johab wrote: Id have to disagree on you with Ribby, he hasnt been flashy, but its not like he isnt producing. He is only i think 7 points back of koivu. 7 points back and what...minus 15? They guy would need to be 27 points ahead to make up for his complete lack of contribution otherwise. Good lord, when all you bring to the table is supposed offense...you've gotta be doing way better than that.

These are the FACTS. In the past 2 months in a Habs uniform Koivu has done the following:

Dropped from a plus 8 to an even zero. He has been on the ice for several goals at key times

Taken SEVERAL lazy penalties, some of which have cause game tying or game winning goals, including one penalty in the offensive zone while on a PP. All indicating he is either tired or his head is not in the game

Koivu scores when he crashes the net. In spite of his diminutive stature, in the past he has shown he is most effective by going hard to the net (ie overtime goal versus Leafs). He has shown he is willing to do that on a consistent basis in the Olympics..he has shown he is willing to do it once a month in Canada

He has 4 goals in the Olympics..10 more and he will have equalled his season total in Montreal.

Yes I was a goalie. But more importantly then that I am a Level 2 Certified Coach in the CAHA which means I am qualified to coach Major Junior. I have seen enough guys go through the motions and Koivu has been guilty of that on several occassions this year. He has just signed a 5 mill contract to be the team leader. Time to start leading. I love the way he plays in Italy. It is the OLD Saku. The player I love to watch. Maybe I am asking too much for him to bring that back to the team that is actually putting bread on his table?

Yes I am not so dumb and naive as to think that better linemates, a wider ice surface have not helped Koivu. That is a piece of the puzzle. But what is Gainey to do now? He has KOvalev on a line with Koivu. It appears that Kovalev will not perform unless he gets who HE wants on his line. It appears that Koivu cannot play up to expectations unless HE gets who he want sto play with? So if what you guys say is true "It just goes to show what these guys can do with decent linemates" then that places Gainey in quite a quandry? Now he is forced to go and somehow make enough trades and find enough money to form 2 lines with Finnish and Russian players to make our 2 marquee players perform? Good luck with that Bob.

JohnM · Guru

Team effort and heart. See Canada's latest result for all the talent in the world with nothing to show for it. Not one player, a whole team.

barry33 · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Team effort and heart. See Canada's latest result for all the talent in the world with nothing to show for it. Not one player, a whole team.

Point well taken Johnny. Further proof as to why that dressing room needs fixed in Montreal. All I want to see is the Saks back that I see this week (the heart and desire that made us all love him). I want that back in Montreal.

JohnM · Guru

I hear you Barry, but he can't do it alone. See the towers of power that Canada had trying to do it alone and just couldn't. Everyone likes to focus on Sak, but people have to remember that there are 18 other guys out there...

plouf · Guru

JohnM wrote:

I hear you Barry, but he can't do it alone. See the towers of power that Canada had trying to do it alone and just couldn't. Everyone likes to focus on Sak, but people have to remember that there are 18 other guys out there...