Ahh Plouf

Muller93 · Guru

Ahh Plouf

Ando · Guru

"Saku talk" is boring And-o!

...nobody has changed their position - nobody will!

Only time...or more time as the case may be...will prove or disprove anything!

One thing is undeniable about this issue though...NOTHING has divided Habdom like the ongoing saga of Saku Koivu - which is really a sad metaphor for this whole sorted affair don't you think?

...anyone else think this is merely the beginning of this debate!?!?!?

AB Habman · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Plouf wrote: "...But I think the fact that they rewarded Koivu is meaningful in the long-term; it helps build the sense of continuity, of a team, of a desirable place to play. And so I for one am very disappointed that Koivu is getting booed, because it is counterproductive". I always seem to line up well with yours and Nil'd posts. I had said something similair in a previous post. I think Gainey senses that he has a solid crop of up and coming rookies. By signing Koivu, he has installed a sense of stability, continuity, and allows these young guys to develop while Koivu takes all the heat. Gainey understands what tradition is, and by signing Koivu, he has absolutely done the right thing. Even if he only gets 50 points( sound like Carbo anyone?). I think what is missing in most anti-Koivu posts is an understanding of what it means to build a TEAM. Sometimes it's not all about point production. Way to go Plouf!

You can not compare Saks to Carb! Two totally different players and probably different also in the way they lead!

Muller93 · Guru

Ando wrote:

Only time...or more time as the case may be...will prove or disprove anything!

Yep And-O. We have all dug in our heels on this one. See you on St. Catherines in June 2009 with Koivu hositing the cup and handing it over to Higgins...and Gainey

And AB, by using Carbo and Koivu in the same sentence, I mean in that they both provide/provided the team with more than point production. In fact, I would argue that the parts of Koivu's game that don't involve point production are his most valuable.

-- Edited by Muller93 at 19:07, 2006-02-15

AB Habman · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Ando wrote: Only time...or more time as the case may be...will prove or disprove anything! Yep And-O. We have all dug in our heels on this one. See you on St. Catherines in June 2009 with Koivu hositing the cup and handing it over to Higgins...and Gainey And AB, by using Carbo and Koivu in the same sentence, I mean in that they both provide/provided the team with more than point production. In fact, I would argue that the parts of Koivu's game that don't involve point production are his most valuable.-- Edited by Muller93 at 19:07, 2006-02-15

I don't buy it!

Carb is arguably the best defensive forward to ever play the game! He won three Cups!

What great fete has Saks ever accomplished on the ice?

If they were both in their prime, you would have a way better chance of winning with Carb because of what he offered!

It's like comparing apples and oranges!

JohnM · Guru

Carbo averaged 1/2 PPG. Less than Sak... He also had a nice supporting cast on each of his 3 cups. Go ahead and check the facts if you like.

24 Rings · Guru

You could also argue that Carbs played in the scoring heyday of the late 80's and 90's. Comparing point production is like comparing apples to oranges. Either way you can never compare these guys - two different roles. Carbs was a checking/defensive forward who could contribute offensively (Higgins?) and he did play with a much better supporting cast in MTL and Dallas. Koivs is a top-line scoring forward; however, he does a hell of a lot more than your average centreman - he gets his hands dirty and helps out on special teams.

AB Habman · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Carbo averaged 1/2 PPG. Less than Sak... He also had a nice supporting cast on each of his 3 cups. Go ahead and check the facts if you like.

That's my point, He still produced on the offensive side but he also was a direct result of keeping the production against down! He was a bigger factor in outcomes of games and proved that by winning Cups! He increased his whole team's chances of winning! Even calling the Habs an inferior team over Saks term doesn't do justice for Saks because they have proven they can win without him!

If you played the two of them against each other, you wouldn't of even noticed Saks was on the ice! Carb wouldn't of even broke a sweat as he has shut down the likes of Gretz, Sakic and Yzerman! The real elete threats of the NHL!

You can't compare the two!

Comparing Mats Naslund with Saks is a better stretch and that didn't go over very well either!

Nil d · Guru

Ando wrote:

"Saku talk" is boring And-o! ...nobody has changed their position - nobody will! Only time...or more time as the case may be...will prove or disprove anything! One thing is undeniable about this issue though...NOTHING has divided Habdom like the ongoing saga of Saku Koivu - which is really a sad metaphor for this whole sorted affair don't you think? ...anyone else think this is merely the beginning of this debate!?!?!?

I quite agree, And-o, if you consider a 95%/5% split as "dividing Habdom"!

Muller93 · Guru

Nil d wrote:

Ando wrote: "Saku talk" is boring And-o! ...nobody has changed their position - nobody will! Only time...or more time as the case may be...will prove or disprove anything! One thing is undeniable about this issue though...NOTHING has divided Habdom like the ongoing saga of Saku Koivu - which is really a sad metaphor for this whole sorted affair don't you think? ...anyone else think this is merely the beginning of this debate!?!?!? I quite agree, And-o, if you consider a 95%/5% split as "dividing Habdom"!

Yes Nil'd, that 5% sure does split everything up...

It must be a wonderful place that And-o and AB live in...

Muller93 · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

You can't compare the two!

I wasn't Hello? Simply pointing out that a player can be extremely effective without massive point production.

What you can't compare is the two teams these guys have played for. Saying Carbonneau must be better because he won cups is kinda crazy don't you think? I mean the habs from Carbo's era were pretty awsome...they even made Steve Penny look good at one point:biggrin

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I rate Koivu as one of the habs top 20-25 players to ever put on a habs jersey. Can you imaging Koivu on that team from 1987-1993? Pure speculation my friend, but I imagine he would have done PRETTY well.

For those of you short sighted enough to suggest Koivu must not be good because they have not had much success...OK, how about Ray Bourque? One of the greatest. Never won anything in 20 years in Boston! Wake up man...it has more to do with the teams, than it does with Koivu.

Ando · Guru

Nil d wrote:

...I quite agree, And-o, if you consider a 95%/5% split as "dividing Habdom"!

Have the Canadiens over-paid Saku Koivu ($14.25M/3YR) in signing him to a 3 year extension? [243 votes total]

Yes (100)
41%

No (143)
59%

....clearly some here don't quite get it!!! HMMMMMMMMMMM???

Key Lime · Guru

What great fete has Saku accomplished compared to Carbo? Are you serious? Did you compare the teams that they've played on? Actually no it is impossible...Saku has been playing on a broken team for 10 years!

Muller93 · Guru

Ando wrote:

Nil d wrote:
...I quite agree, And-o, if you consider a 95%/5% split as "dividing Habdom"!

Have the Canadiens over-paid Saku Koivu ($14.25M/3YR) in signing him to a 3 year extension? [243 votes total]

Yes (100)
41%

No (143)
59%

....clearly some here don't quite get it!!! HMMMMMMMMMMM???

And-O, where is that from? I notice you did not disclose. Also, 243 votes is hardly a large enough sample size to really feel at all confident in the info.

Ando · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

And-O, where is that from? I notice you did not disclose.

Yeah...y'er probably right...it came from this crappy little site that you would not be interested in...I think it is called GOHABS.COM!!!

....you really should invest in that helmet!

Muller93 · Guru

Sorry And-o. I see that it is from this site. I find that result interesting. I wonder if it is not one of those things where the negative individuals vote more than the positives. kinda like when they had a vote in Halifax about Sunday shopping. I know for a fact that the large majority of the population wanted Sunday shopping, but the vote turned out split 50/50. So no Sunday shopping.

I am sure that is because the negative side was more passionate about it so voted. However, I am sure a random sample would reveal 85% for Sunday shopping I bet...

Nil d · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Sorry And-o. I see that it is from this site. I find that result interesting. I wonder if it is not one of those things where the negative individuals vote more than the positives. kinda like when they had a vote in Halifax about Sunday shopping. I know for a fact that the large majority of the population wanted Sunday shopping, but the vote turned out split 50/50. So no Sunday shopping. I am sure that is because the negative side was more passionate about it so voted. However, I am sure a random sample would reveal 85% for Sunday shopping I bet...

Muller, You're right about the Sunday Shopping issue in Halifax. Most people want it, but he No side is a lot more militant, and had a 100% voter turnout, so it was defeated.

And-o, that vote was specifically for the amount of the contract. I voted in the 41% that said "too high", as I think it is a tad too high. However, that doesn't take away from my being happy that he's resigned for three years and I'm still a big fan of his. And I think "too high" relative to other players, but it's still an efficient market, so by definition it's market value. So I'm in the 41% in the GoHabs survey, but in the 95% of the posters on this site who like the guy. You and AB have a hate on for him for some reason, the rest of us all like him to some degree. 2 of some 50 posters is 4%, so I think 95/5 is a valid estimate.

-- Edited by Nil d at 14:42, 2006-02-16

Ando · Guru

Nil d wrote:
...that vote was specifically for the amount of the contract. I voted in the 41% that said "too high", as I think it is a tad too high. However, that doesn't take away from my being happy that he's resigned for three years and I'm still a big fan of his. And I think "too high" relative to other players, but it's still an efficient market, so by definition it's market value. So I'm in the 59% in the GoHabs survey, but in the 95% of the posters on this site who like the guy....2 of some 50 posters is 4%, so I think 95/5 is a valid estimate...

There ya have it folks – an argument that black is actually white…unless black is looking for grey, in which case white can become anything!

For those who choose reality as their place-of-residence, it is what it is (and has been for awhile) – a very divided split ~ 60/40 ~ And-o didn’t make it up folks!!!

Honestly though, the Separatist movement in Quebec has nothing up on some here.

It is sadly ironic (perhaps even a metaphor for recent Hab history) that the one thing that has historically united Hab fans (that being the Captain) is now continuously splitting opinion…the whole affair really is quite remarkable…and obviously this circus is going to continue after the break.

Nil d · Guru

Ando wrote:

Nil d wrote:...that vote was specifically for the amount of the contract. I voted in the 41% that said "too high", as I think it is a tad too high. However, that doesn't take away from my being happy that he's resigned for three years and I'm still a big fan of his. And I think "too high" relative to other players, but it's still an efficient market, so by definition it's market value. So I'm in the 59% in the GoHabs survey, but in the 95% of the posters on this site who like the guy....2 of some 50 posters is 4%, so I think 95/5 is a valid estimate... There ya have it folks – an argument that black is actually white…unless black is looking for grey, in which case white can become anything! For those who choose reality as their place-of-residence, it is what it is (and has been for awhile) – a very divided split ~ 60/40 ~ And-o didn’t make it up folks!!! Honestly though, the Separatist movement in Quebec has nothing up on some here. It is sadly ironic (perhaps even a metaphor for recent Hab history) that the one thing that has historically united Hab fans (that being the Captain) is now continuously splitting opinion…the whole affair really is quite remarkable…and obviously this circus is going to continue after the break.

I edited a typo - I meant to say I was in the 41% who voted "too high" (in the second reference). But otherwise, And-o, I stand by my comments. Boiled down to its simplest form: You and ABHabman hate Koivu (is anyone else arguing in your favour? Name one name!), the rest of us like him. End of argument.

barry33 · Guru

Nil d wrote:

Ando wrote: Nil d wrote:...that vote was specifically for the amount of the contract. I voted in the 41% that said "too high", as I think it is a tad too high. However, that doesn't take away from my being happy that he's resigned for three years and I'm still a big fan of his. And I think "too high" relative to other players, but it's still an efficient market, so by definition it's market value. So I'm in the 59% in the GoHabs survey, but in the 95% of the posters on this site who like the guy....2 of some 50 posters is 4%, so I think 95/5 is a valid estimate... There ya have it folks – an argument that black is actually white…unless black is looking for grey, in which case white can become anything! For those who choose reality as their place-of-residence, it is what it is (and has been for awhile) – a very divided split ~ 60/40 ~ And-o didn’t make it up folks!!! Honestly though, the Separatist movement in Quebec has nothing up on some here. It is sadly ironic (perhaps even a metaphor for recent Hab history) that the one thing that has historically united Hab fans (that being the Captain) is now continuously splitting opinion…the whole affair really is quite remarkable…and obviously this circus is going to continue after the break. I edited a typo - I meant to say I was in the 41% who voted "too high" (in the second reference). But otherwise, And-o, I stand by my comments. Boiled down to its simplest form: You and ABHabman hate Koivu (is anyone else arguing in your favour? Name one name!), the rest of us like him. End of argument.

YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN Kids can we move on please? I recall being told that when I was ranting about CJ too much..and i have..give it a rest already.

plouf · Guru

Koivu Koivu Koivu

Muller93 · Guru

plouf wrote:

Koivu Koivu Koivu

Koivu Koivu Koivu. Best forward on the habs. like him or not; think the signing is too high or not: prefer the likes of Ribby. Whatever... he is the best forward on the team. I support our great players. End of story. And that is the end of my rants...for a while.

24 Rings · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

plouf wrote: Koivu Koivu Koivu Koivu Koivu Koivu. Best forward on the habs. like him or not; think the signing is too high or not: prefer the likes of Ribby. Whatever... he is the best forward on the team. I support our great players. End of story. And that is the end of my rants...for a while.

I'll second that notion. I think we have beat this topic to death, eh? Everytime someone starts a post on Koivs it's the same rants and the same positions from the same people.

Can't we just agree to disagree and gang up on Bonk or Ribs?