Barry33 just pretty much nailed it!!!

Ando · Guru

Barry33 just pretty much nailed it!!!

AB Habman · Guru

Ando wrote:

And-o would like to borrow a direct quote from one of Barry33's posts...this is in direct reference to Marc Savards contract renewal with Atlanta (and others...and there are several...in very similar circumstances)... Barry says........"the bottom line "Geesh..Koivu got 4.75 million and my point total is almost double his"." Now I ask...where is Savard's entry point???....6 million???...seem fair??? And, where on Earth (or should I say "in heaven") would Olli Jokinen's price range begin???...8 million??? ...and I cringe to think of what Eric Staal will be worth in 5 years!!! .....anyone else think that the "new NHL" looks a whole lot like the "old NHL"??? LUNACY!

And-o, like I stated after Barry's post, is it not ironic that a Canadian team starts the re-spiralling of over inflated contracts while a team like the Rangers dumped pre-lockout and are rebuilding quickly to win a Cup!

barry33 · Guru

Hey! Don't you guys go drawing me into your anti-Saks crossfire again boys lol. My point is not to say whether it was right or wrong or whether it was worth it. Simply trying to play GM and looking at what this signing says to other Centers in the league with better point production. It is not about sentiment. It is about economic reality. Ironically. I believe the Theo signing was not about sentiment. It was more about what Gainey THOUGHT Theo could do for the team..go figure

Muller93 · Guru

Ando wrote:

And-o would like to borrow a direct quote from one of Barry33's posts...this is in direct reference to Marc Savards contract renewal with Atlanta (and others...and there are several...in very similar circumstances)... Barry says........"the bottom line "Geesh..Koivu got 4.75 million and my point total is almost double his"." Now I ask...where is Savard's entry point???....6 million???...seem fair??? And, where on Earth (or should I say "in heaven") would Olli Jokinen's price range begin???...8 million??? ...and I cringe to think of what Eric Staal will be worth in 5 years!!! .....anyone else think that the "new NHL" looks a whole lot like the "old NHL"??? LUNACY!

POINTS POINTS POINTS POINTS POINTS POINTS....Koivu is not only a point producer. He is a grinder/075 points per game/play the PK/play the PP/play through traffic etc kinda player.

If you based everything on point production, what kind of TEAM would you have? That Savard guy is a pretty dam good point producer...but so what? Would you build a TEAM around him? I sure would not.

AB Habman · Guru

barry33 wrote:

Hey! Don't you guys go drawing me into your anti-Saks crossfire again boys lol. My point is not to say whether it was right or wrong or whether it was worth it. Simply trying to play GM and looking at what this signing says to other Centers in the league with better point production. It is not about sentiment. It is about economic reality. Ironically. I believe the Theo signing was not about sentiment. It was more about what Gainey THOUGHT Theo could do for the team..go figure

Barry, one post you're saying that the Saks signing is too high and the other you are saying it's the going rate?

Now you're saying that it's about production and not sentiment, which I already stated in response to a previous post, thus I agree!

I guess that is why And-o and I think you think the signing is high until you get off the fence!

It's Ok to have an opinion on this rather than being in a cross fire! Everyone else has one!

Based on the Cap economy, many think that this contract is too high and taking too much Cap slack on an average team trying to make the playoffs! Can we now rebuild or like you stated, will our more productive players want a bigger piece of no pie? This isn't about bashing Saks but merely the reality of paying a player based on sentiment and not productivity!

Ando · Guru

Hey Muller93...this thread isn't about slagging on the Saku deal...that deal is "fini" (pun intended)...don't miss the point here though.

We're all simply asking a legitimate question here - what is a guy like Olli Jokinen going to command given the deal Saku Koivu received???

If Muller93 skated like Olli...shot like Olli...scored like Olli...etc...etc...what would you expect given this latest comparable signing??? +$8 million...seem reasonable???

I tell ya one thing, if Florida thinks Jokinen will accept less than $5 million...just as an opening offer to get seriously negotiating...they are nuts!

And-o personally thinks that both sides (if he stays in FLA) will meet around $7 million'ish!!!

...and that figure is just insane...BUT, judging by the most recent comparable signing (which is usually how these things go)...that seems quite reasonable??? Agree???

Muller93 · Guru

Ando wrote:

Hey Muller93...this thread isn't about slagging on the Saku deal...that deal is "fini" (pun intended)...don't miss the point here though. We're all simply asking a legitimate question here - what is a guy like Olli Jokinen going to command given the deal Saku Koivu received??? If Muller93 skated like Olli...shot like Olli...scored like Olli...etc...etc...what would you expect given this latest comparable signing??? +$8 million...seem reasonable??? I tell ya one thing, if Florida thinks Jokinen will accept less than $5 million...just as an opening offer to get seriously negotiating...they are nuts! And-o personally thinks that both sides (if he stays in FLA) will meet around $7 million'ish!!! ...and that figure is just insane...BUT, judging by the most recent comparable signing (which is usually how these things go)...that seems quite reasonable??? Agree???

I actually like that Oli guy. He was a third overall draft pick by LA in 1997. But he is a bit of a late bloomer really. His numbers for his career have not been spectacular. 65 points being his highest point production and really only 3 adequate NHL seasons.

I project because he is 4 years younger than Koivu he gets 5 mil/season.

Habtastic · Guru

This is Jokinene's first ppg season and the first season he has been a + player. He has not guided his team to the play-offs, he is not a top defensive player, and he has trouble with consistency. All the same things can be said about Savard. Koivu is paid what he is because of being a complete player who has shown loyalty to the team and is being rewarded for it. Yes, I think it is a bit high... 4 mill would have been more like it, but those other two should not expect better money by having their first big point seasons, yet still lacking in other areas. Besides, Jokinen is only 2 points ahead of a PPG rate and Savard just needs to pass the puck to Hossa or Kovalev and they do the rest!

Habtastic

Muller93 · Guru

As for Savard...have a look at his career. The guy is a pretty one dimensional player who just happens to be having a big point production season...again I say so what...and I suspect so will most GM's in the league...4 million at best.

If I am a GM, no way in hell am I pinning me hopes on a crafty one dimensional player like Savard.

Ando · Guru

...fair enough Muller93!

Still...$5 million is allot of $$$!

heet_150 · Guru

Something being bantied about is that after March 9th, some of these guys will renew their contracts. The players in question, like Luongo and Jokinen, just might feel that by having a contract in place, they become more desirable at the trade deadline. They are looking at deciding their own future, by either guaranteeing that they stay with the team they are with now, or by picking and choosing their new team via free agency. I personally think that was what was going on with Koivu, until the no-trade clause.
Just my $0.02 worth.

plouf · Guru

Habtastic wrote:

This is Jokinene's first ppg season and the first season he has been a + player. He has not guided his team to the play-offs, he is not a top defensive player, and he has trouble with consistency. All the same things can be said about Savard. Koivu is paid what he is because of being a complete player who has shown loyalty to the team and is being rewarded for it. Yes, I think it is a bit high... 4 mill would have been more like it, but those other two should not expect better money by having their first big point seasons, yet still lacking in other areas. Besides, Jokinen is only 2 points ahead of a PPG rate and Savard just needs to pass the puck to Hossa or Kovalev and they do the rest! Habtastic

Well said. Everyone is drooling over Savard, but what has he done in his career? Until this season he was a frustrating tease. I'm sure his coaches agreed.

Edit: I guess Muller just said that...

-- Edited by plouf at 09:42, 2006-02-14

barry33 · Guru

plouf wrote:

Habtastic wrote: This is Jokinene's first ppg season and the first season he has been a + player. He has not guided his team to the play-offs, he is not a top defensive player, and he has trouble with consistency. All the same things can be said about Savard. Koivu is paid what he is because of being a complete player who has shown loyalty to the team and is being rewarded for it. Yes, I think it is a bit high... 4 mill would have been more like it, but those other two should not expect better money by having their first big point seasons, yet still lacking in other areas. Besides, Jokinen is only 2 points ahead of a PPG rate and Savard just needs to pass the puck to Hossa or Kovalev and they do the rest! Habtastic Well said. Everyone is drooling over Savard, but what has he done in his career? Until this season he was a frustrating tease. I'm sure his coaches agreed. Edit: I guess Muller just said that... -- Edited by plouf at 09:42, 2006-02-14

The arguments are flawed here. Look at Martin St. Louis in Tampa...2003 he had 38 goals, 56 helpers for 94 points. Was making 1.5 million a year. Before this season he was a UFA. Tamp are-signed him for what I think is about 4.5 million. St. Louis' stats so far this year? 18/25 for 43 points. What did St. Louis do before 2003? he was a free agent castoff signing. Do you think Tampa GM Jay Feaster said "oh well ya...Martin played with Vinny so his stats are overinflated?". No. The fact is that although Feaster may have thought that, he also knew that if he did not ante up to the trough, another GM would have drooled over Marty's 2003 stats and grabbed him. And I could give you 100 examples of this happening. It is all about the stats boys and girls and nothing but the stats. Marc Savard will get a St. Louis type contract next year regardless of if he plays on a line with Kovalchyk in Atlanta or Bonk in Montreal

Muller93 · Guru

barry33 wrote:

plouf wrote:
Marc Savard will get a St. Louis type contract next year regardless of if he plays on a line with Kovalchyk in Atlanta or Bonk in Montreal

Any bets??? No he won't. And I figured St. Louis had a great year but will never do it again. I think you would be suprised how few GM's would have thrown big bucks on Marty. But Tampa had just won the cup...so they WANTED to keep the nucleus of that team together.

Savard---I'm going on record to say Atlanta offers him around 3-4 mil for two seasons.

Muller93 · Guru

I mean 3-4 mil per season and a two year contract.

AB Habman · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

I mean 3-4 mil per season and a two year contract.

Muller, I think a one way contract at 5 mil per!