I agree 100% with AB! 

...but you won't find Saku on ANY list of top centremen PERIOD (except maybe "most likely to become a UFA")

I think there are two ways to settle this:

1) If he signs with the Habs next year. We know that he is wanted here and he wants to be here.

Unless we are part of the talks, we won't know who doesn't want who if he doesn't sign.

2) If he doesn't sign we need to track how his play is without being with the Habs next year.

AB Habman wrote:

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 I have a better idea, Why not justify the pro Saks arguements with the comparisons of other first line centers in the league?  The way Bonk and Ribs have played thus far, actually makes Saks seem above average until you compare him to his first line center peers through out the league!

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Well, we're all Hab fans, aren't we?  It's only natural that we would compare Saku with other players we know well.

Can you argue that Koivu has not been the Habs' best forward this year?

JohnM wrote:

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I think there are two ways to settle this: 1) If he signs with the Habs next year. We know that he is wanted here and he wants to be here. Unless we are part of the talks, we won't know who doesn't want who if he doesn't sign. 2) If he doesn't sign we need to track how his play is without being with the Habs next year.  

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Guys. My argument has never been that Koivu is the best player in the game. I do think he has been shafted in Montreal due to a complete lack of support. But my point of view has always been that Koivu is a great little player that ALL teams in the NHL would love to have. But I have never called him a a definite number one guy for all teams. But so what.

Face it. He is pretty dam good. He gets points, grinds, plays defense, plays the PP and PK. What is the issue? Yes, I would love another center on the habs. Even a guy who becomes the top center. But for the love of god, just support our better players. You don't have to think he is the almighty.

But if you are truly a habs fan, then what is the issue?  That's all I ever point out in my posts. I don't know where the "saint saku" stuff came from. He is Montreal's best all around player. OK that may not be saying much if you like, but whatever...we should be supporting our best players, not dogging them eh?

Unless someone can make a viable argument that Koivu is not the habs best player...? anyone?

Muller93 wrote:

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JohnM wrote: I think there are two ways to settle this: 1) If he signs with the Habs next year. We know that he is wanted here and he wants to be here. Unless we are part of the talks, we won't know who doesn't want who if he doesn't sign. 2) If he doesn't sign we need to track how his play is without being with the Habs next year.   Guys. My argument has never been that Koivu is the best player in the game. I do think he has been shafted in Montreal due to a complete lack of support. But my point of view has always been that Koivu is a great little player that ALL teams in the NHL would love to have. But I have never called him a a definite number one guy for all teams. But so what. Face it. He is pretty dam good. He gets points, grinds, plays defense, plays the PP and PK. What is the issue? Yes, I would love another center on the habs. Even a guy who becomes the top center. But for the love of god, just support our better players. You don't have to think he is the almighty. But if you are truly a habs fan, then what is the issue?  That's all I ever point out in my posts. I don't know where the "saint saku" stuff came from. He is Montreal's best all around player. OK that may not be saying much if you like, but whatever...we should be supporting our best players, not dogging them eh? Unless someone can make a viable argument that Koivu is not the habs best player...? anyone?

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The voice of reason, as always, Muller (And-o, AB, feel free to disagree.)  And you repeat my question (see my post, above) to AB: Can anyone say Koivu is not our best player this year?  Explain.  You will be graded on clarity of argument, empirical evidence to back up your argument, and sentence structure.

Muller93 wrote:

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JohnM wrote: I think there are two ways to settle this: 1) If he signs with the Habs next year. We know that he is wanted here and he wants to be here. Unless we are part of the talks, we won't know who doesn't want who if he doesn't sign. 2) If he doesn't sign we need to track how his play is without being with the Habs next year.   Guys. My argument has never been that Koivu is the best player in the game. I do think he has been shafted in Montreal due to a complete lack of support. But my point of view has always been that Koivu is a great little player that ALL teams in the NHL would love to have. But I have never called him a a definite number one guy for all teams. But so what. Face it. He is pretty dam good. He gets points, grinds, plays defense, plays the PP and PK. What is the issue? Yes, I would love another center on the habs. Even a guy who becomes the top center. But for the love of god, just support our better players. You don't have to think he is the almighty. But if you are truly a habs fan, then what is the issue?  That's all I ever point out in my posts. I don't know where the "saint saku" stuff came from. He is Montreal's best all around player. OK that may not be saying much if you like, but whatever...we should be supporting our best players, not dogging them eh? Unless someone can make a viable argument that Koivu is not the habs best player...? anyone?

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But you can make that case for all the top players on the team! Like so; Kovalev-he is not receiving any support, thats why he is not performing. Zednik-he is not recieving any support, thats why he is not performing. Ribs- See the pattern? Like i said you can make the "he is not recieving any support" case for all the players!

Saku11 wrote:

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But you can make that case for all the top players on the team! Like so; Kovalev-he is not receiving any support, thats why he is not performing. Zednik-he is not recieving any support, thats why he is not performing. Ribs- See the pattern? Like i said you can make the "he is not recieving any support" case for all the players!

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Salaries from TSN:

My issue has been and always will be with 2 things. Plain and simple and in spite of some on this board trying to imply that I am bias due to my relationship with CJ (which is just plain bull) I have been very consistent on this point since the seasons started (which I belivee was long before Julien got canned?). My points are this:

1. Koivu is not a number one center. In fact, I believe he ranks about 41st in the league in points for Centers. That pretty much says it all to me. He has been overused and is worn out and that is not his fault. As for a "lack of support" he has had to play with in Montreal I would think that most NHL Centers would give their right arm to have Kovalev on their right side? With the amount of ice time he gets and the PP opp's, one would expect more ..but in fairness, Sundin has not been any better so it is hard to compare


2. My bigger issue is more with his leadership and captaincy. If you watch him unbiasedly and how he has handled certain situations this year, one has to question whether he can, or even wants to, lead this team. Situations like not talking to the media Tuesday night after the game and leaving Begin to do it are, in my mind, totally unacceptable. Now maybe he had a good reason. But if he did then that needs to be made clear.