Kovalev

superhab · Guru

Kovalev

barry33 · Guru

superhab wrote:

There's a lot of talk here about floaters but yet this guy seems to escape critsim. Why is that? He's the biggest floater he hardly ever skates hard only sometimes when he has the puck does he seem to go. Even when he has the puck he usally just ends up giving it up because he takes on three guys at once. You can say what you want about Saku and Zednik not performing but at least you can see some hustle in them while Kovalev does squat. To me Kovalev is a bigger dissapointment then Bonk, at least when we got Bonk we knew that he didn't have a huge talent level but Kovalev was supposed to be that 30-40 goal scorer that we need so badly. He does nothing and takes home a big paycheck yet nobody notices, they notice Theo and his big paycheck, and Zednik and his decent paycheck, and Bonk and his paycheck. Yet nobody gives a hoot about Kovalev. Even look at Kovalev this year everytime he had a big (String of) game(s) it was because he had something to prove. Two years ago in the playoffs he almost lost the series but he came back to be the hero and his goat horns were removed, and he was able to sign a big contract. He got hurt and when he was hurt and he had to prove to the team he was still valuble while hurt. He came back from injury he had to prove his surgery didn't effect his play. He played a great game against Ottawa then dissapered.

ActuallY i do not feel Kovalev has been given a free ride. He has been criticzed extensively on here and will continue to be. He has been nothing short of pathetic in his effort. But Koivu has been with the team for 10 years and 6 coaches. Time for a change.

wright · Veteran Member

Barry, I take it you feel it is time to replace Koviu as captain of the team? How do you feel should replace him in that position. Personally I don't feel there are too many individuals in that dressing room that deserve the honour.

I agree with you that there is a deep rooted malaise on the team and that the captain has to shoulder some of the responsibility. This team does not have a lot of talent, but there is no excuse for a lack of effort on the ice.

barry33 · Guru

wright wrote:

Barry, I take it you feel it is time to replace Koviu as captain of the team? How do you feel should replace him in that position. Personally I don't feel there are too many individuals in that dressing room that deserve the honour. I agree with you that there is a deep rooted malaise on the team and that the captain has to shoulder some of the responsibility. This team does not have a lot of talent, but there is no excuse for a lack of effort on the ice.

If they are to replace him as Captain it should be done through a trade. The fact that he has not signed a new contract shows me he does not want to stay an dhis play on the ice and his lack of emotion and leadership inidicates, in hi smind, he is already elsewhere. To give him his dues, the guy has given his heart and soul to the team and is probably just tired of trying to carry them on his shoulders and has given up. Who can blame him? Whatever the motive is irrelevant. Trade Saks, get something in return, and start from there. And furthermore, if you can get anything decent fro Kovalev to a team wanting to make a run this year, he goes too.

plouf · Guru

barry33 wrote:

wright wrote: Barry, I take it you feel it is time to replace Koviu as captain of the team? How do you feel should replace him in that position. Personally I don't feel there are too many individuals in that dressing room that deserve the honour. I agree with you that there is a deep rooted malaise on the team and that the captain has to shoulder some of the responsibility. This team does not have a lot of talent, but there is no excuse for a lack of effort on the ice. If they are to replace him as Captain it should be done through a trade. The fact that he has not signed a new contract shows me he does not want to stay an dhis play on the ice and his lack of emotion and leadership inidicates, in hi smind, he is already elsewhere. To give him his dues, the guy has given his heart and soul to the team and is probably just tired of trying to carry them on his shoulders and has given up. Who can blame him? Whatever the motive is irrelevant. Trade Saks, get something in return, and start from there. And furthermore, if you can get anything decent fro Kovalev to a team wanting to make a run this year, he goes too.

I wouldn't sign a contract either if I was the only player (except Begin and Bulis) giving it a full effort for the first 30 games of the season and then people started giving me flak.

And this isn't the first time. Koivu is not untouchable and has never been, at least not on this board. Some of us spent most of last season defending him too (and listening to how great Ribeiro was...oh and Bonk, but I won't go there). Anyway, what do we know about the negotiations? Maybe he's being offered an insulting deal. Maybe Gainey's playing tough (how surprising would that be?). There is a lot of judgement of Koivu based on pure speculation. Whereas when it comes to what we actually KNOW about, what he does on the ice, it has been obvious for years that he is one of the last players on the team to pack it in. Yes, he's playing poorly right now, but the team has been playing like utter crap for months, and there are many many others who quit before he did. Maybe change captains, maybe...but dump on Koivu? I think not.

barry33 · Guru

plouf wrote:

barry33 wrote: wright wrote: Barry, I take it you feel it is time to replace Koviu as captain of the team? How do you feel should replace him in that position. Personally I don't feel there are too many individuals in that dressing room that deserve the honour. I agree with you that there is a deep rooted malaise on the team and that the captain has to shoulder some of the responsibility. This team does not have a lot of talent, but there is no excuse for a lack of effort on the ice. If they are to replace him as Captain it should be done through a trade. The fact that he has not signed a new contract shows me he does not want to stay an dhis play on the ice and his lack of emotion and leadership inidicates, in hi smind, he is already elsewhere. To give him his dues, the guy has given his heart and soul to the team and is probably just tired of trying to carry them on his shoulders and has given up. Who can blame him? Whatever the motive is irrelevant. Trade Saks, get something in return, and start from there. And furthermore, if you can get anything decent fro Kovalev to a team wanting to make a run this year, he goes too. I wouldn't sign a contract either if I was the only player (except Begin and Bulis) giving it a full effort for the first 30 games of the season and then people started giving me flak. And this isn't the first time. Koivu is not untouchable and has never been, at least not on this board. Some of us spent most of last season defending him too (and listening to how great Ribeiro was...oh and Bonk, but I won't go there). Anyway, what do we know about the negotiations? Maybe he's being offered an insulting deal. Maybe Gainey's playing tough (how surprising would that be?). There is a lot of judgement of Koivu based on pure speculation. Whereas when it comes to what we actually KNOW about, what he does on the ice, it has been obvious for years that he is one of the last players on the team to pack it in. Yes, he's playing poorly right now, but the team has been playing like utter crap for months, and there are many many others who quit before he did. Maybe change captains, maybe...but dump on Koivu? I think not.

I just feel that desperate times call for desperate measures. Coach has been replaced with no results. I strongly feel that Koivu would benefit as much from a change as the Habs team would. I am sorry. I just do not see the great leader that others do. It is easy to be a leader when things are going well. Great leaders can also pikc a team up by the bootstraps when they are doing poorly. I do not see that. Sorry. My opinion.

plouf · Guru

Desperate times, desperate measures, sure. Maybe Koivu needs to be traded. But not crapped on. Just as CJ doesn't deserve to be crapped on, though maybe he did need to go. Koivu has given a lot to this organization (especially if you compare him to nearly anyone else you can think of on this team) and is one of the most consistent guys here. Let's not blame his "lack of leadership" for what is going on with this team. Those who say he's had "ten years" obviously haven't had a close look at some of the rosters he's been a part of during that time. Patrice Brisebois was our number one defenseman during most of that time! Koivu has never REALLY had a chance to play with a good bunch of players. What's been achieved has often been the result of tight defensive systems, smart coaching, heroics (not least by Koivu himself, and of course Theodore), and yes, a team mentality probably held together by leadership of coach and captain. I know this is all familiar stuff we've heard before. But then again, so is all the Koivu criticism.

AB Habman · Guru

plouf wrote:

Desperate times, desperate measures, sure. Maybe Koivu needs to be traded. But not crapped on. Just as CJ doesn't deserve to be crapped on, though maybe he did need to go. Koivu has given a lot to this organization (especially if you compare him to nearly anyone else you can think of on this team) and is one of the most consistent guys here. Let's not blame his "lack of leadership" for what is going on with this team. Those who say he's had "ten years" obviously haven't had a close look at some of the rosters he's been a part of during that time. Patrice Brisebois was our number one defenseman during most of that time! Koivu has never REALLY had a chance to play with a good bunch of players. What's been achieved has often been the result of tight defensive systems, smart coaching, heroics (not least by Koivu himself, and of course Theodore), and yes, a team mentality probably held together by leadership of coach and captain. I know this is all familiar stuff we've heard before. But then again, so is all the Koivu criticism.

You've said it best. Saks needs a change! Nothing has worked out for him here! Habs have been pathetic for the last ten years and he's been in the middlle of it! Let's just say Habs and Saks deserve better! It's a two way street!

Also like you mentioned, it's possible that Gainey offered him too little! If you're Gainey you have to base it on what he's worth today and today he's worth very little!

plouf · Guru

There's where I'd disagree. Koivu would be worth a lot to quite a few teams. If he leaves town you will soon see...Problem is, he's worth very little as a trading commodity, because he is soon to be a free agent.

24 Rings · Guru

superhab wrote:

There's a lot of talk here about floaters but yet this guy seems to escape critsim. Why is that? He's the biggest floater he hardly ever skates hard only sometimes when he has the puck does he seem to go. Even when he has the puck he usally just ends up giving it up because he takes on three guys at once.

This started out as a little Kovy rant so I'm bringing it back to it's roots because just like this post got sidetracked - Kovy does seem to weasel around criticism. I was just thinking that it probably isn't a coincidence that he has played on losing NHL teams his whole career? He hasn't shown up in a while and I'm not talking about bagging points here, I'm talking about taking over a game like we all know he can. He just hasn't shown any desire in the past 3 months. This guy perpetuates the European = great skill but lazy/soft/no heart stereotype. I like the guy, but along with a lot of guys on this team, he frustrates the hell out of me.

Comments from any Kovy lovers/haters out there?

plouf · Guru

I think Kovalev is one of those guys who does well on a team that's already clicking, or when it's a big game.
He's perfect for a team that's already decent but is ready to step up to a higher rung. On a mediocre team like this year's Habs, he'll just relax and collect his salary. At least that's what he did in New York. He's kind of unpredictable. In the playoffs he's often been a dominant player.
Just some thoughts based on the past. Hard to know what's up with him right now. He looked pretty great early on, but after the injury he's been way too quiet.