For those who want to trade Saku...

JohnM · Guru

For those who want to trade Saku...

AB Habman · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Check out this thread about TO fans who want to get rid of Sundin (too funny): Copy and paste link into url field: http://forums.sportsnet.ca/thread.jspa?threadID=67918&tstart=0 Then click on Toronto Maple Leafs and topic: For all You People that want to trade Sundin -- Edited by JohnM at 13:48, 2006-01-22

I don't think their is many here that want him traded! Just his role deminished to one he can handle and not an overinflated contract!

24 Rings · Guru

I used to always back Koivs but he has made it really hard lately to stay on his bandwagon. Is it that he isn't giving 100% or is he just not that good? I'm not in favour of getting rid of him, but he has been the ghost & the darkness out there.

plouf · Guru

24 Rings wrote:

I used to always back Koivs but he has made it really hard lately to stay on his bandwagon. Is it that he isn't giving 100% or is he just not that good? I'm not in favour of getting rid of him, but he has been the ghost & the darkness out there.

Really?

I think the only player who's been better than Koivu this season has been Markov. Kovalev SHOULD be the best player on the team, he certainly has the talent, but he seems to take every second game off.

Who has been better among our forwards?

24 Rings · Guru

plouf wrote:

24 Rings wrote: I used to always back Koivs but he has made it really hard lately to stay on his bandwagon. Is it that he isn't giving 100% or is he just not that good? I'm not in favour of getting rid of him, but he has been the ghost & the darkness out there. Really? I think the only player who's been better than Koivu this season has been Markov. Kovalev SHOULD be the best player on the team, he certainly has the talent, but he seems to take every second game off. Who has been better among our forwards?

Yeah, I don't think he has been good at all. Certainly not as good as years past. I just don't notice him on the ice lately (along with the rest of the club) most nights. As the face of the franchise, I just expect more out of him. As to who has been the best player? That is one for the ages...can you really pick out one guy who has been better than everyone else?

barry33 · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

JohnM wrote: Check out this thread about TO fans who want to get rid of Sundin (too funny): Copy and paste link into url field: http://forums.sportsnet.ca/thread.jspa?threadID=67918&tstart=0 Then click on Toronto Maple Leafs and topic: For all You People that want to trade Sundin -- Edited by JohnM at 13:48, 2006-01-22 I don't think their is many here that want him traded! Just his role deminished to one he can handle and not an overinflated contract!

I do not want him traded. I just have legitimate questions about his role in the dressing room and his use as a second line center. Although he is our "top scorer", he has 12 goals. We need more goal production out of our first line center and our first line in general.

Ando · Guru

...I wish JFJ would make us a reasonable offer!!!

Gainey should just shutdown contract talks with Koivu because his negotiating position just keeps getting better and better as time passes! Plus, if someone upstages his offer for Koivu in June...there will be plenty of bigger fish in the sea (quite literally)!

...I recall some here asking in a rather mocking fashion at one point..."who is Vancouver's #1 centreman anyway???" Now do you know his name?!

plouf · Guru

barry33 wrote:

AB Habman wrote: JohnM wrote: Check out this thread about TO fans who want to get rid of Sundin (too funny): Copy and paste link into url field: http://forums.sportsnet.ca/thread.jspa?threadID=67918&tstart=0 Then click on Toronto Maple Leafs and topic: For all You People that want to trade Sundin -- Edited by JohnM at 13:48, 2006-01-22 I don't think their is many here that want him traded! Just his role deminished to one he can handle and not an overinflated contract! I do not want him traded. I just have legitimate questions about his role in the dressing room and his use as a second line center. Although he is our "top scorer", he has 12 goals. We need more goal production out of our first line center and our first line in general.

True enough, Koivu's not good enough or big/strong enough to be a number one centre when there's no true #2, but he's a legitimate top 2 centre and a number 1 on a team with more at that position. As for his goal total, he's not really a true goal scorer, and his goal total is really not bad for a playmaker on a misfiring line with a guy who's been injured half the time (and on the other wing there was the ultimate puck hog). Did Zednik pass the puck at all when he was on his line?

barry33 · Guru

plouf wrote:

barry33 wrote: AB Habman wrote: JohnM wrote: Check out this thread about TO fans who want to get rid of Sundin (too funny): Copy and paste link into url field: http://forums.sportsnet.ca/thread.jspa?threadID=67918&tstart=0 Then click on Toronto Maple Leafs and topic: For all You People that want to trade Sundin -- Edited by JohnM at 13:48, 2006-01-22 I don't think their is many here that want him traded! Just his role deminished to one he can handle and not an overinflated contract! I do not want him traded. I just have legitimate questions about his role in the dressing room and his use as a second line center. Although he is our "top scorer", he has 12 goals. We need more goal production out of our first line center and our first line in general. True enough, Koivu's not good enough or big/strong enough to be a number one centre when there's no true #2, but he's a legitimate top 2 centre and a number 1 on a team with more at that position. As for his goal total, he's not really a true goal scorer, and his goal total is really not bad for a playmaker on a misfiring line with a guy who's been injured half the time (and on the other wing there was the ultimate puck hog). Did Zednik pass the puck at all when he was on his line?

Plouf- I just want a center on our team that is a sniper..a threat anytime he is out there. When is the lats time we had that? Kovalev has that ability when he wants to. I mean a Jagr, Alfredson kind of guy. I wonder if any thought has ever been given to trying Saks on the wing? I bet he would get more space out there and his playmaking abilities would be more evident. Just a thought.

plouf · Guru

But Jagr and Alfredsson are both wingers.

Most centremen are not sniper-types anyway. It might be interesting to put Koivu on the wing, but I think we'd be disappointed, because he's not a great goalscorer. He is, however, a really good playmaker.

I just looked at the top-ten goalscorers in the NHL, and only one of them was a centreman (Staal). The rest were wingers.

Seven of the top ten assist men were centremen.

Anyway, I agree with your general point. Aside from Kovalev, nobody seems to be a number 1 sniper on this team. Ryder and Zednik look like second-liners.

I wonder about Kostsitsyn though, he does seem like he could be a real sniper-type.

Still, what I really want is a Brendan Shanahan-type. A big roughneck with a shot.

JohnM · Guru

Morrison had the same point production last night as Saku. He also doesn't have alot of goals. What most people don't understand is that the centerman is usually a setup man. You need to put wingers with him who can put the puck in the net. Put Saku between Bert and Nasland and see what happens. Saku is one of the only players doing anything for the team. Yes, let's get rid of him so we can have one less player caring what happens out there.

Power · Veteran Member

For those who want to our 1st line center to be solid goal scorer, 30+ goals/season.

2001-2002 There was 9, 2002-2003 6 and 2003-2004 7 centers who scored over 30 times. To name few, Sakic, Lecavalier and Sundin. What do you guys think that Habs is capable to give for exchange for a center like this?(I`ll answer, nothing)

Just my opinion, center is mainly a playmaker, wingers score goals. So if we can get 1-2 good playmakers and 2 solid scorer, WHO CAN PLAY FOR TEAM, that would be a good base to build for.

Koivu will do as 2nd line center just fine, just like Ribs, just not in the same team. So other one has to go. It is BGs or Montreal medias job to decide which one. (we all know who it is)

macneil · Guru

andy who is van's num.1 center , oh nevermind i just looked it up , its that 5-11, 190 pound giant , who has 37 points in 48 games +4, yes i would trade our 5-10 181 pound smurf who has 35 points in 35 games +7 for him in a heart beat . will you get off the saku bash , hes as good a center as morrison , what did koivu do to you that he gets this much shiat from you . hes not perfect but when you start comparing him to morrison as if he was the king of centers its really bad.

JohnM · Guru

By the way, the reason for the post was to show that some posters are very much like Leaf fans trying to rid themselves of Sundin.

When things go bad we can even turn on players who are working hard and putting points on the board. I don't think that's what a good fan does. We should cheer the good guys, otherwise they won't wanna be here anymore and we will be stuck going Bonkers....

Muller93 · Guru

plouf wrote:

But Jagr and Alfredsson are both wingers. Most centremen are not sniper-types anyway. It might be interesting to put Koivu on the wing, but I think we'd be disappointed, because he's not a great goalscorer. He is, however, a really good playmaker. I just looked at the top-ten goalscorers in the NHL, and only one of them was a centreman (Staal). The rest were wingers. Seven of the top ten assist men were centremen. Anyway, I agree with your general point. Aside from Kovalev, nobody seems to be a number 1 sniper on this team. Ryder and Zednik look like second-liners. I wonder about Kostsitsyn though, he does seem like he could be a real sniper-type. Still, what I really want is a Brendan Shanahan-type. A big roughneck with a shot.

Plouf and JohnM. You guys seem to be the two, of few to many ,who really get the game. Koivu---this guy is absolutely one of the top players in the game. But its hard for two or three, maybe four good forwards to do anything when all around you is crap.

For all of you Koivu Naysayers---remember this is a team sport. You could plant Thornton in place of Koivu and the result would be the same. How can you do anything when your supposed back up center is a sack of S%##, and your goalie takes away all momentum by letting in almost everything, and your defencemen can't deciede who should take the puck?

Right now this team sucks, and I can guarentee you, Koivu is one of the few with a target on his back. Some other skinny wiesel who inherited a false sense of entitlement from the media on the other hand...If not for the stupid ignorant media, this fruitcake would have been dumped long ago and we would likely have invested in a "real" second/first line center.

Muller93 · Guru

Oh Yeah, I forgot to mention Nil'd as a Koivu fan who gets the game. Barry certainly knows the game, but I sense some hostility towards Koivu since CJ was fired.

So I wonder...Is it just that Koivu did not use the "nice" words about CJ being fired( which words are just words IMO) or does Barry have some inside info? And were Souray's words true leadership or the ramblings of a guilty guy who backstabbed his teamates? I don't know, I just don't know. I have my suspicions about who I figure the rat is but...all speculation. But I am right

I know this team lacks leadership at the momment, but I doubt anyone could lead this bunch of misfits...

JohnM · Guru

Add macneil aka reddog to the list of Koivu supporters. Anyone else that I have missed?

mdmrules · Member

chalk me in John

JohnM · Guru

Ok boys and girls, let's get behind the team and the captain. Let BG worry about the problems in the room.

barry33 · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Oh Yeah, I forgot to mention Nil'd as a Koivu fan who gets the game. Barry certainly knows the game, but I sense some hostility towards Koivu since CJ was fired. So I wonder...Is it just that Koivu did not use the "nice" words about CJ being fired( which words are just words IMO) or does Barry have some inside info? And were Souray's words true leadership or the ramblings of a guilty guy who backstabbed his teamates? I don't know, I just don't know. I have my suspicions about who I figure the rat is but...all speculation. But I am right I know this team lacks leadership at the momment, but I doubt anyone could lead this bunch of misfits...

I think I have made it clear that I have no hositility whatsoever towards Saks. I love the guy. Because I do not hold him to as high esteem as many of you do, does not mean I am "hostile" towards Saks. Do I think he could have handled things better? No Question. I stand by that. I appreciate his effort and his loyalty to the team. But he has not shown me alot on the way of leadership. Maybe I am expecting too much? I just feel that guys like Muller when he was Captain would have taken better control of the team. But please, do not take that as being hostile towards Saks. I hope he remains a Hab (as a SECOND line center). I am just not convinced he should remain captain. As habs fans, if we are to support change and call for change, we need to be open to anything to get the team back on track. If Gainey sees fit to do something with Koivu we need to support that.

Muller93 · Guru

barry33 wrote:

As habs fans, if we are to support change and call for change, we need to be open to anything to get the team back on track. If Gainey sees fit to do something with Koivu we need to support that.

I agree. One of my favorite players growing up was Bob Gainey. As much as I love saks and REALLY do not feel ANYONE could lead these clowns, If Bob Chooses to remove the 'C' from Koivu( he wont), then I support it. Especially if it means the habs get going( not this year no matter who wears th "c")...

But Yeah, I trust BOB...I give him two years before I start callinh him an idiot( the Bonk trade is starting to scare me a little about BOB). But my childhood hero still has my vote...for now