Koivu

heet_150 · Guru

Koivu

Ando · Guru

...whatever Saku!

Figaro · Guru

I think this is a pretty standard statement from someone coming up to free agency. But, BG has other, more immediate things to worry about. I'm sure he'll say as much to Saku and I'm confident Saku will be in MTL next year.

AB Habman · Guru

Trust me, as I stated before, Gainey will not sign Saks long term as he would of done this already!

It takes two to come to an agreement, so what Saks states publically may not be what was said behind closed doors! Saks may want to be a free agent more than you all think! Would you want to be on a team for ten seasons and win squat with no sign that Gainey is trying to win sooner rather than later?

This is Saks last season as a Hab!

Ando · Guru

Hey AB...I think the reverse question needs to be asked as well - as in, would a team want a captain for ten seasons without winning squat?

Zulrath · Senior Member

Leafs seem generally happy with Sundin. Had to take that shot

-- Edited by Zulrath at 17:54, 2006-01-10

Muller93 · Guru

Ando wrote:

Hey AB...I think the reverse question needs to be asked as well - as in, would a team want a captain for ten seasons without winning squat?

Lots of GREAT captain's have played on teams and not won squat...How about Ray Bourque as an example...not his fault, all Boston management. How about Sundin?

Fact is Ando, Koivu is a great captain. One of the best leaders in the game. Consistently providing defense and offense. For you to continually ignore the fact that for 10 seaons Koivu has been the"go to guy", and despite having ZERO support, has just gone out and performed game in and game out. Your complete denial of this still strikes me as bizzare. It would be intereresting to see who could be made captain down the line that would make you happy.

By the way, I have not bought the book yet, but will look in Chapters this weekend( not big on libraries, I like to own what I read). After watching the leaders debate last night, my motivation to read why Canada needs to have defined distinction among its citizens is somewhat lacking...

-- Edited by Muller93 at 18:34, 2006-01-10

-- Edited by Muller93 at 18:35, 2006-01-10

barry33 · Guru

I have stated before that I would never sign Saks to a long term agreement because of his injury history. This is not putting him down or downplaying his contribution to the habs franchise. It is only a sensible business decision.

Ando · Guru

Sundin has led the Leafs to wayyyyyyyy more success in the past decade than the Koivu lead Canadiens.....but all of this bickering is nonsense!

Lets take the next step!

Koivu would either make a great #2 guy in Montreal...or he would be solid tradebait, although I guarantee that NOBODY steps up and offers the Habs half of what the "pro-Koivu" crowd here at GOHABS thinks he is worth!

(HEY MULLER93...not certain if the book I recommended is worth owning...although it surely is an interesting read from my point of view...it amazes me just how few "Canadians" actually even understand the term "Canadien". Anyway...fodder for another board I guess!)

AB Habman · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Ando wrote: Hey AB...I think the reverse question needs to be asked as well - as in, would a team want a captain for ten seasons without winning squat? Lots of GREAT captain's have played on teams and not won squat...How about Ray Bourque as an example...not his fault, all Boston management. How about Sundin? Fact is Ando, Koivu is a great captain. One of the best leaders in the game. Consistently providing defense and offense. For you to continually ignore the fact that for 10 seaons Koivu has been the"go to guy", and despite having ZERO support, has just gone out and performed game in and game out. Your complete denial of this still strikes me as bizzare. It would be intereresting to see who could be made captain down the line that would make you happy. By the way, I have not bought the book yet, but will look in Chapters this weekend( not big on libraries, I like to own what I read). After watching the leaders debate last night, my motivation to read why Canada needs to have defined distinction among its citizens is somewhat lacking...-- Edited by Muller93 at 18:34, 2006-01-10 -- Edited by Muller93 at 18:35, 2006-01-10

Let's stick to fact rather than how special of a player he is!

Fact is we will all know soon enough how special he is by how this one year contract ends up! It takes two players to reach an agreement. Let's see what kind of deal Gainey offers (if any) and how Saks plus his agent react!

It's very possible the special Captain doesn't want to be here and will look for the big bucks in the off season!

Muller93 · Guru

Ando. Yep fodder for another board i'm sure. I am sure in some acedemic way the term "canadian" means something that few would need to understand. The majority are just proud of our culture and humanitarian approach to the world, and leave it at that. However, I am an acedemic, so I like to read...again thanks for the book suggestion. I doubt it will change my view of what it means to be "canadian" however...but you never know...

As for Koivu, I would have to agree that his trade worth might be lower than his true value based on injury history. So I would be suprised to see anything of equal value returned in a trade. Prospects would be nice but I don't see an immediate return on a Koivu trade investment.

I have said it before, If Koivu is traded, look Him to be traded if Montreal misses the playoffs. Otherwise, I'm not so sure. That kind of leadership example goes a long way in trainning the up and coming youth. You need those kind of veteren guys to show the future habs what it means to wear the CH. Otherwise Chipchura and Higgins might turn into gangsta crew suit wearing coke addicts with limp wrists before they ever had a chance....

AB Habman · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Ando. Yep fodder for another board i'm sure. I am sure in some acedemic way the term "canadian" means something that few would need to understand. The majority are just proud of our culture and humanitarian approach to the world, and leave it at that. However, I am an acedemic, so I like to read...again thanks for the book suggestion. I doubt it will change my view of what it means to be "canadian" however...but you never know... As for Koivu, I would have to agree that his trade worth might be lower than his true value based on injury history. So I would be suprised to see anything of equal value returned in a trade. Prospects would be nice but I don't see an immediate return on a Koivu trade investment. I have said it before, If Koivu is traded, look Him to be traded if Montreal misses the playoffs. Otherwise, I'm not so sure. That kind of leadership example goes a long way in trainning the up and coming youth. You need those kind of veteren guys to show the future habs what it means to wear the CH. Otherwise Chipchura and Higgins might turn into gangsta crew suit wearing coke addicts with limp wrists before they ever had a chance....

Sorry Muller, I know your response was meant for And-o but I must add that if Saks has no contract by trade deadline, don't look for him to be around at training camp!

Muller93 · Guru

Ab, you could be right. But would you agree that if that happened it would be for one of two reasons:

1. The habs trade him and get "prospects" which means we are back to a re-build phase( which I think is fine by the way) Or;

2 Koivu refuses to sign again with a team that has given him Ribero as a second line center and only Kovalev as a viable winger. 10 seasons of garbage to work with must be frustrating.

Also, about that quote in one of the above posts, What do we all expect Koivu to say? What something like: " I love Montreal and don't think I am worth very much so I will just bend over and let Gainey pay me the most minimum he can..." come on. That statement was what every hockey player would have said. Hockey is a sport but it's also "bid-ness" as well( actually this part of this post is directed at Ando-o's "whatever Saku..." comment).

AB Habman · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Ab, you could be right. But would you agree that if that happened it would be for one of two reasons: 1. The habs trade him and get "prospects" which means we are back to a re-build phase( which I think is fine by the way) Or; 2 Koivu refuses to sign again with a team that has given him Ribero as a second line center and only Kovalev as a viable winger. 10 seasons of garbage to work with must be frustrating. Also, about that quote in one of the above posts, What do we all expect Koivu to say? What something like: " I love Montreal and don't think I am worth very much so I will just bend over and let Gainey pay me the most minimum he can..." come on. That statement was what every hockey player would have said. Hockey is a sport but it's also "bid-ness" as well( actually this part of this post is directed at Ando-o's "whatever Saku..." comment).

With #1, it doesn't mean if he is traded that we are automatically rebuilding because we could get something in return that succeeds Saks such as a big forward who can play full time. Saks has been in top 30 in scoring once in his career, that hardly sounds like the Habs will fall apart and have to rebuild with out him!

With#2, Ribs is not on his line and a player should be evaluated by how he plays, not how other lines play! But saying that, he has been through many rebuilding and talent lacking teams! Ribs hasn't been around long enough and his prior season was a big reason Habs make the playoffs so how can Ribs be blamed for Saks moving on? It's just present circumstances not historical!

Let's just say that Saks earned the right to be a free agent and will cash in, in the off season!

Nil d · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

.......... I will just bend over and let Gainey pay me the most minimum he can..." ..............

Grammarman wanted me to pass along that the above expression - "most minimum" - is the best oxymoron he's seen in a long while!

Johab · Guru

hey Nil d...hows these Pretty ugly, random order, legally drunk, military intelligence, ...i can go on forever with these haha

Muller93 · Guru

Nil'd. Yes, I must admit that sounds funny when reading it back. Most minimum....hmmm I'm sure I'd get a "D" for that one if I were in school. But I still like it...

Nil d · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Nil'd. Yes, I must admit that sounds funny when reading it back. Most minimum....hmmm I'm sure I'd get a "D" for that one if I were in school. But I still like it...

I like it too...........!

Power · Veteran Member

I don’t know what rainmaker you guys waited when Koivu came to Montreal. He is from Finland, so he is not personally talented enough to be 100 points/season guy not even 80, at least he would need a very good line to work with and healthy season then maybe 80 points is achievable. He is team player, pretty good captain material, pretty good playmaker and hard working 2 way center, in good team he would be 2nd or 3rd center( now I have to say that I love habs, but in the name of truht we have to admit that we have couple 2nd line centers and hole punch of 3rd line centers but not one 1st line center).

This much I have to defend Saku, And-o points out every time that Saku´s small sized player without ability to physical game, but those games what I have seen there have been biggers guys that can´t even play that much physical game than Saku does and there still is. You would think that with Sakus injury history he would be afraid to go corners, takcle and to be takcled. But hell no!

Let me tell you little bit about Finnish hockey coaches, when you are junior here about 10-12 years coaches starts to force you to play for team and same time they smother players creativenes, and if you are crazy enough that you try to throw little somethig somethig in you play. Consequences of that is that you´re benched. That is the reason why only 2 Finnish players is worth to say goal scorer and those are Kurri and Selanne(and this one is fading) and those 2 had also good line mates Kurri had Gretzky,Messier, Anderson….. and Selanne had Kariya. That is also reason why Finland don´t success in international level because we have **** loads of playmakers but not one solid goal scorer. Only thing what we have plenty is good goalies.