The thing that upsets me most...

Ando · Guru

The thing that upsets me most...

barry33 · Guru

I will not jump all over you because it is fact. We need a top centerman and move Koivu to number 2 so he does not get injured and is rested. What we have had at center ice 75% of the time this year is, in a word, pathetic.

Muller93 · Guru

Ando wrote:

...one guy like Brad Richards...or Vincent LeCavalier...or Joe Thornton...or Doug Weight would pretty much cure about 75% of what hurts the Habs overnight! The main problem in Montreal has not changed in about 10 years...we need a top centreman. Everyone can jump all over And-o about not supporting Saku all they what...but until this fact is addressed properly, these kind of results will continue!

No dispute here. The only thing we differ on is the fact that Koivu IS a number one center. But without the proper support you cannot expect him to carry an entire franchise. The guy needs back up support or he will get hurt all the time.

Its like the chicken or the egg thing. Is it that Koivu is injury prone or the fact that the past nine seasons he has been a one man show? Thus busting himself up carrying the entire load?

I say trade Ryder for a bonified center...Ryder is the only bait we have I figure. Any other suggestions?

barry33 · Guru

I know some here would say it would be a slap in the face to Saks to "demote" him to number 2 I disagree. He has carried the load and is hurting. He is not getting any younger and with the ice time he has had to endure he is older than his years. Time to pass the torch Saks. You have paid your dues and will be much more effective on the 2nd line and on the PP. A rested Koivu is an effective Koivu.

hockeyman · Senior Member

We have too many of the same kind of players. Here's what I mean. What do Sunny, Bulis,Higgins.Begin,Bonk have in common? They are all defensively aware with little or no offensive talent. This is almost half of our forwards. Other teams are carring maybe two of these types of players while we have way too many. BG knew the new NHL was going to be fast and full of offense but did nothing to address our problems. Everybody here knew we needed an adequate 2nd line winger but nothing was done. The 3rd and 4th line has to chip in the odd goal and create a little offense,but c'mon...... these guys are all made from the same mould. I have an uneasy feeling if BG stands pat we will be on the outside looking in.

brooklynhabfan · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Is it that Koivu is injury prone or the fact that the past nine seasons he has been a one man show? Thus busting himself up carrying the entire load?
I say trade Ryder for a bonified center...Ryder is the only bait we have I figure. Any other suggestions?

Getting rid of Ryder would be the icing on the cake of the "look how great they are now we've traded them" cake. The guy's got 16 goals this year. He's shown a lot of grit annd enthusiasm. Any problems he has can be put squarely at the feet of the fact that he's only just completed his 100th game. Maybe his patience, that of a far more experienced player, makes critics forget how long he's been playing for. The dumb crap will evaporate, and quicker still if he didn't have to see Ribs face on the other end of pass for much longer.

Once Ryder has worked all his kinks out, he'll be a consistant 25-30 goal scorer, year in and out, with plenty of character to back it up. I'd hate to see him go

As far as Saks, he's been beaten with the unlucky stick far more than he deserves. The fact that there's been plenty of guys on great teams who have both busted ass, and been around to tell about it, must be harsh when you've had as many bad breaks as he has. And it's a shame he's not mentioned in the same breath as them more often, being a rare breed of player who busts as hard in October as in May.

And as you say, he would probably not be in a position quite so often to receive the fruits of such bad luck if he didn't have guys staring at him work while they think about what movie they're going to see next Sunday. (Important diary fodder)

If we can muster up a cup soon, I don't know what would be sweeter; a healthy Saku holding up the trophy he just helped win, or the fact that he did so with a team surrounding him that matched his level of commitment and determination.

BTW, I hope that clearly defines a little about how I feel about the guy. Here's to what hopefully will be his last trip to the IR ditch!

brooklynhabfan · Guru

barry33 wrote:

I know some here would say it would be a slap in the face to Saks to "demote" him to number 2 I disagree. He has carried the load and is hurting. He is not getting any younger and with the ice time he has had to endure he is older than his years. Time to pass the torch Saks. You have paid your dues and will be much more effective on the 2nd line and on the PP. A rested Koivu is an effective Koivu.

You've got a valid point. No one looks at Stevie Y with any less respect than they did in the past.

I don't remember anyone thinking Gretzky was any lesser when he eased back and concentrated on setting up plays instead. I'd say 75% of his greatest points were assists.

barry33 · Guru

brooklynhabfan wrote:

barry33 wrote: I know some here would say it would be a slap in the face to Saks to "demote" him to number 2 I disagree. He has carried the load and is hurting. He is not getting any younger and with the ice time he has had to endure he is older than his years. Time to pass the torch Saks. You have paid your dues and will be much more effective on the 2nd line and on the PP. A rested Koivu is an effective Koivu. You've got a valid point. No one looks at Stevie Y with any less respect than they did in the past. I don't remember anyone thinking Gretzky was any lesser when he eased back and concentrated on setting up plays instead. I'd say 75% of his greatest points were assists.

Look the bottom line is that if we keep playing Saks as a number one center and on the PP he will not be around to enjoy a cup with anyone. Get him some help, put him on the scond line and PP and prolong his career by about 5 years. Because at this rate he will be back in Finland playing oldtimers hockey and we need him here.

JohnM · Guru

I think all the talk of Sak is for not considering he isn't in the lineup. Let's focus on who is in the lineup and how they can put wins together. They need to play for 60 minutes with effort. If they lose like this I don't think any of us will complain.

Trapper John · Member

John, I think you are right on. The flow of the Habs' game has become almost predictable. A lackluster start in the first period, followed by a flurry of activity after being scored upon, a second period lacking in sustained hustle, and a frantic last six or seven minutes at the end of the third. It's almost like the effort at the end of the game is designed to say, "Look at me...see how hard I am working?"

I should temper my remarks by saying that the ice was obviously in horrible shape at Atlanta. It sure looked like the Habs hit the ice with skates that were too sharp for the rotten ice surface.

Oh yeah, before I forget. Zednick took a pounding along the boards last night. Call me old-fashioned, but I long for the days when it was acceptable to have an Enforcer (not necessarily a goon) to send the other guy a "don't do that anymore" message!

Nil d · Guru

Trapper John wrote:

John, I think you are right on. The flow of the Habs' game has become almost predictable. A lackluster start in the first period, followed by a flurry of activity after being scored upon, a second period lacking in sustained hustle, and a frantic last six or seven minutes at the end of the third. It's almost like the effort at the end of the game is designed to say, "Look at me...see how hard I am working?" I should temper my remarks by saying that the ice was obviously in horrible shape at Atlanta. It sure looked like the Habs hit the ice with skates that were too sharp for the rotten ice surface. Oh yeah, before I forget. Zednick took a pounding along the boards last night. Call me old-fashioned, but I long for the days when it was acceptable to have an Enforcer (not necessarily a goon) to send the other guy a "don't do that anymore" message!

Welcome to the Board, Trapper! Tell us a bit about yourself - another Hab fan from South of the border?

davidb · Guru

Welcome from south of the border Trapper nice to have you

Ando · Guru

Well NOW we are finally talk'in sense around here!!!

...however, our options seem limited right now!

My solution would be to pursue Doug Weight, since the Blues are clearly free-falling and into full re-build mode! (The only other remotely possible options are Olli Jokinen and Brad Richards)

In my mind, the only untouchables are Markov, Kovalev and maybe Ryder...the rest are all open to offers!

(And-o had hoped Bonk was the guy to shore up the middle...and I still maintain that he will prove VERY useful...but let's solve the #1 problem once and for all.)

AB Habman · Guru

And-o, I know you mean well and are right as I have always agreed we need depth down the center especially a big center with skill who can handle the every day grind but Weight isn't that guy! Right now, he wouldn't add any more offense than Juneau!

AB Habman · Guru

JohnM wrote:

I think all the talk of Sak is for not considering he isn't in the lineup. Let's focus on who is in the lineup and how they can put wins together. They need to play for 60 minutes with effort. If they lose like this I don't think any of us will complain.

This post is why we're in trouble to begin with. Gainey is thinking this same thing up stairs rather then reacting to the situation that this team lacks the proper roster to play this way and is proving it every day!

davidb · Guru

You are correct about blaming the players on the ice and not the ones in the pressbox. My concern is even if the players in the pressbox were on the ice, we would be just where we are right now Losing