Barry33

Muller93 · Guru

Barry33

Ando · Guru

Saku was looking pretty "ginger" before shutting it down (as I pointed out numerous times)...so, And-o does not expect to see much of him over the course of this roadtrip.

(By the way, And-o is still not convinced that it is a groin problem)

...as for Barry33's comments about Saku's history of injuries, that is just a fact.

And of course Bob considered that when signing him...and don't worry - NOBODY will scoop him away from Montreal with a long-term deal...NOBODY!!!

If that was y'er $$$, would you take a chance given his history - NO WAY!!!

Yes Saku is good...but only a fool inks him long-term! The guy will be lucky to play 60 games EVER again in one season.

Not a slam...just a fact!

barry33 · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

About Johnm defending Koivu. It's simple really. Koivu is no different than most elite players in the game who bring it all on the ice. They all seem to miss alot of games due to injury. As oppossed to a mutant like Ribero who never getsa hurt because he never playes hard. What I don't get is why certain people feel so inclined to point out koivu. I swear peple cannot apprecite his on ice effort. its frustrating to read posts like that. What would you rather have, a prancing Ribero?

First of all I was not "slamming" Koivu. I was very clear in my post that I love this guy and what he brings to the table.. when he plays. You cannot loop Koivu in with most elite players as far as injury woes go. He is hurt more than he is healthy. Look at the "games played" section of his stats. Koivu gets pointed out for the same reason that Theo gets pointed out and yes, Julien gets pointed out. Because the espectations are higher and we NEED these guys. We are wofeully thin at the center ice position. Much has been said about us needing a number 2 center. We do. But we desperately need a healthy number one center. Things are so bad that Julien is using Begin on the power play. No choice. He has Begin and Ribiero. And as muchy as I love Begin and what he brings to the party, there is not a team in the NHL that would need to use him on the Power Play on a regular basis.

I never said I do not appreciate his on ice effort. No one does more than I do. But the fact is that he is injury prone. And regardless of what he brings to the table, Bob Gainey or anyone else will take a second look before signing him to a long term deal. You do not need to look into a crystal ball for that. Just look at the games played stats.

brooklynhabfan · Guru

I'm throwing in with Barry on this one.

I love Saku, I think there's no questioning his spirit and determination. Or his love of the club. Or superb skills.

But he doesn't complete seasons. Not many of them anyway. There is also a tendency to fear being too harsh on him because of his admirable battles with health problems.

But should we have a captain that's part-time, all the time? I know it's tough, but if we're going to move past this hideous cycle we're in year after year, maybe he should relinquish the "C" and let everyone get on with it.

I'm now going to put on my egg-proof helmet

JohnM · Guru

Some of you are starting to sound like Leafs fans.

Recently, Leafs fans have been asking for Sundin to relinquish his 'C' and they are also wondering if Sundin should be traded. What has he brought to the Leafs, he's often injured and they can't get past the 2nd round.

Get a grip people, even I know what Sundin brings to that team. Most of you do not realize what a captain means to a team. Our recent great captains were Carbo and Muller. Look at what they brought to the table and look at what Saku brings. I agree he's hurt a lot, but so are the other players who actually try hard out there, this isn't figure skating. The captain should be the heart of the team and that's what Saku is and that's what Sundin is to the Leafs.

brooklynhabfan · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Get a grip people, even I know what Sundin brings to that team. Most of you do not realize what a captain means to a team.

John, with all respect, I was watching the habs raise cups before you were born, and my grip is good.

I, and certainly many of the board members, know what a captain means to a team. But if we launched 300 years ahead, the Saku era would be a footnote in Habs history at best. For the same reason coaches who are perfectly good get canned to provide a fulcrum for change, so must Captains, even beloved ones, face up to the need for something different in the mix.

As far as Sundin, he's brought to the Leafs what all the other Captains they've had for 40 years have brought: Not a bloody thing. As cupless as a forgetful, regretful goalie. So if he's your gold standard for Captains, maybe Kirk (final frontier, not Muller) is available for hire. He's from Montreal, after all.

-- Edited by brooklynhabfan at 16:42, 2005-12-24

Johab · Guru

JohnM wrote:

I agree he's hurt a lot, but so are the other players who actually try hard out there,

EXCELENT POINT!!! One of my favs ive seen on this board. What would you rather...a Koivu who you KNOW will give it his all every game he plays and work himself to the point where he cant go on any further or a player that will be a wimp and let other players carry the load. Could it possibly be that players like Koivu get injured because of a lack of work from other players...such as Ribeiro, Dagenais...etc.... Koivu's recent injuries are due to him working too hard...no fractures, no broken bones...i didnt know playing your heart out for you team wasnt good enough...and in doing that we should get rid of him..right? So what is it...a 60 game Koivu or a 82 game ribeiro....the point differential isnt much...but the quality of the team and the players around him is. Id take Koivu in a heartbeat!!! Im going to come out and say KOIVU WILL BE INKED LONG TERM IN A HABS UNIFORM THIS SUMMER...and when it does happen ill be bringing this post back up....now that we are able to of course!!

brooklynhabfan · Guru

I'm not saying we should get rid of him, in fact I'd love to see him retire in a habs uniform. I just think that his average games per year is probably hovering around 50, and you need a C who is present all the time.

I'd hate to see him go, and I've posted in the past we should do everything possiblr to keep him

and by the way, I worked as a trainee therapist one winter and saw tons of figure skaters bruised and warped from their grueling efforts. it might be a bit twee, but they're not wimps by any means!

-- Edited by brooklynhabfan at 23:24, 2005-12-24

JohnM · Guru

Before I was born the Habs were able to choose French Canadians before any other teams, so let's try to get a grip on what today's NHL is. Captain's are guys like Scott Stevens, Dave Andrechuck (sp?), etc... We aren't living in the days with 6 teams anymore so please don't bring up those times even though you may be as old as those days.

Please don't try to sway between the yays and nays, if you want Saku gone, just say so. This way when he does well we won't have to see your posts cheering for him.

I agree with johab, Saku is BG's type of guy and will be signed for the long haul, unless of course he is tired of fans like barry33, and-0 and brooklyn.

brooklynhabfan · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Before I was born the Habs were able to choose French Canadians before any other teams, so let's try to get a grip on what today's NHL is. Captain's are guys like Scott Stevens, Dave Andrechuck (sp?), etc... We aren't living in the days with 6 teams anymore so please don't bring up those times even though you may be as old as those days.
Please don't try to sway between the yays and nays, if you want Saku gone, just say so. This way when he does well we won't have to see your posts cheering for him.
I agree with johab, Saku is BG's type of guy and will be signed for the long haul, unless of course he is tired of fans like barry33, and-0 and brooklyn.

Do you really think that Saku is in the same league of Leadership as those guys? BTW, I was born after expansion. and the Habs cups I saw lifted were in a much bigger NHL than 6 teams.

Look, I'm really not interested in gettiing into a pissing match with you. If you can't see issues as anything other than black and white, don't waste my time being such a boring cheerleader. Find the inconsistancies in my past posts, and we'll talk about it, but until then, stick to the point being discussed.

JohnM · Guru

brooklynhabfan wrote:

Do you really think that Saku is in the same league of Leadership as those guys? BTW, I was born after expansion. and the Habs cups I saw lifted were in a much bigger NHL than 6 teams. Look, I'm really not interested in gettiing into a pissing match with you. If you can't see issues as anything other than black and white, don't waste my time being such a boring cheerleader. Find the inconsistancies in my past posts, and we'll talk about it, but until then, stick to the point being discussed.

Yes I do think he is in the same league. The point being made is whether Sak should be captain of the Habs and I am not sure you have an actual point as to why he shouldn't be. Aren't you the one saying it should be given to Kovy after 1 game back? I'd rather be a cheerleader for the Habs than a backstabbing "fan".

brooklynhabfan · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Yes I do think he is in the same league. The point being made is whether Sak should be captain of the Habs and I am not sure you have an actual point as to why he shouldn't be. Aren't you the one saying it should be given to Kovy after 1 game back? I'd rather be a cheerleader for the Habs than a backstabbing "fan".

OK

Muller93 · Guru

brooklynhabfan wrote:

OK

Hey Brook. I think the main issue here is fan support. Nothing worse than fans that are inconsistent.

Some people on this board pull the " I love koivu... but lets find another captain: Or " I love Koivu but I told you the little smurf would be injured" etc. What kind of fair weather fan is that.

JohnM simply means you either stick by your choices of who on the team plays their heart out or say nothing at all.

No matter what Ribero does, I maintain my dislaike of his style of play. I don't jump on here and cheer whenever he scores and then fart on him when he suckes. I think he sucks all the time. Even two seasons ago!

You either are a Koivu fan or not. Pick one. He is hurt because he is one of a handleful of players that actually works his ass off EVERY nightThe best fans are the ones who are loyal...otherwise cheer for the leafs.

hockeyman · Senior Member

That's ok we will just replace Sak in the lineup with Bonk...........Oh sorry,I forgot....The saviour and our future 1st line centre(Bonk)is injured. Hope you caught the sarcasm.