where are the naysayers tonight??

Gravelbourger · Member

where are the naysayers tonight??

plouf · Guru

Ok, let me be the first naysayer. We're still barely winning games, and looking shaky defending leads.

But hey, nice cushion we're building here.

Gravelbourger · Member

So you are saying we must win by 2, 3 or 4 goals to be a solid team?? What a ridiculous statement!! We have yet to lose a game in regulation and you still aren't convinced we are for real. We got 5 of 6 points on the road. We beat a team many have picked to come out of the West. In today's day of hockey, leads aren't like the days of Skrudland and Carbo. Calgary had what... 3 or 4 PP's in the last 15 minutes of the third period?? That was unheard of a few years ago. Buffalo won 9-1 tonight over Philly. Philly should be concerned with their team, as should Boston. Our start has been fabulous. In addition, we outshot, outhit, our special teams out specialteamed, and outscored Calgary tonight......nuff said! Keep it up Habs!!

-- Edited by Gravelbourger at 01:29, 2006-10-18

MC Girl · Guru

Gravelbourger wrote:

So you are saying we must win by 2, 3 or 4 goals to be a solid team?? What a ridiculous statement!! We have yet to lose a game in regulation and you still aren't convinced we are for real. We got 5 of 6 points on the road. We beat a team many have picked to come out of the West. In today's day of hockey, leads aren't like the days of Skrudland and Carbo. Calgary had what... 3 or 4 PP's in the last 15 minutes of the third period?? That was unheard of a few years ago. Buffalo won 9-1 tonight over Philly. Philly should be concerned with their team, as should Boston. Our start has been fabulous. In addition, we outshot, outhit, our special teams out specialteamed, and outscored Calgary tonight......nuff said! Keep it up Habs!!

-- Edited by Gravelbourger at 01:29, 2006-10-18

Amen Gravel!!!

Would it have been better for us to get the empty netter with 2 seconds left??? Would that have made it a better because it was by 2 goals instead of 1??? short answer.. NOPE!

A win is a win.... & we are winnin'.

barry33 · Guru

Gravel- at the risk of being accused of being a know it all, I beg to differ. Lats year we were all on a high when we won our first 3 games of the season. Talk of a long run in the playoffs and a possible parade on St Catherines street. We all know what happened after that. The fact is it is early. There have been some bright spots as I pointed out in a post yesterday. But the fact remains that a few games do not a season make and a couple injuries at key spots could mean a big difference. So lets enjoy the wins and hope for now. But lets stay on an even keel. It is early and for now, the bounces seem to be going our way. A one goal win could as easily be a one goal loss.

In fairness Gravelbourger, we will have to say that Toronto has a solid team as well? They have impressed and also beat Calgary.

-- Edited by barry33 at 09:10, 2006-10-18

Ando · Guru

And-o responds with a few questions...

...imagine this Hab roster WITH a LeCavalier???

...imagine this team WITHOUT a 1a and 1b goalie system? (Huet is shakey)

...how many injuries are we away from Patrick Traverse??

...what happens if we lose a (AS IN, JUST ONE) centreman to injury?

(And-o thinks 'naysayers' have legitimate points)

wright · Veteran Member

Hey And-o, your concern about the habs lack of depth is a valid one, but given the salary cap, a lack of depth at certain key positions could apply to the vast majority of teams in the league. Could the Habs be stronger in the transition game, for sure. The defence at times looks shakey when dealing with a strong forecheck, but this team and most others (unless your Buffalo) have shortcomings.

On the positive side 8 out of 10 points is a great start. The first and third lines played well, and even the second line had a better night. Komi continues to develop into a very solid dman, and after a rough two periods the Habs played a great defensive game in the third period limiting Calgary to only 6 shots even though they had three straight powerplay opportunities late in the game. By and large there were very few passengers on the Habs effort last night. The effort was there, and the Habs have points on the board in every game so far, in a very competitive balanced league it is a solid start to the season.

barry33 · Guru

wright wrote:

Hey And-o, your concern about the habs lack of depth is a valid one, but given the salary cap, a lack of depth at certain key positions could apply to the vast majority of teams in the league. Could the Habs be stronger in the transition game, for sure. The defence at times looks shakey when dealing with a strong forecheck, but this team and most others (unless your Buffalo) have shortcomings.

On the positive side 8 out of 10 points is a great start. The first and third lines played well, and even the second line had a better night. Komi continues to develop into a very solid dman, and after a rough two periods the Habs played a great defensive game in the third period limiting Calgary to only 6 shots even though they had three straight powerplay opportunities late in the game. By and large there were very few passengers on the Habs effort last night. The effort was there, and the Habs have points on the board in every game so far, in a very competitive balanced league it is a solid start to the season.

definately! Alot to be excited about!! WHat I liked was how the team came together. As unfortunate as the hit was on Downey, it is a character builder. That hit could have just as easily elevated the Flames game last night but instead, the habs rallied. That game last night had playoff type intensity and you gotta love that. There are still concerns as all teams have and I will continue to try to point them out (I am sure Carbo reads my posts lol). There were a few defensive lapses last night (Lombardi could have been reading a book waiting for the puck a couple times) that I am sure will be addressed. But the team is a work in progress and Cudos to the coaches and players for a job well done so far.

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

Just to play both sides here, there is a lot of good to be said about our possible start, especially the points that go to our final standings, the fact that we were able to score 5 times against a very good defensive team, that Carbonneau seems to have made good on his promise about Bonk, the number 1 and 3 lines look amazing, the number 2 line is starting to show signs of life, the defence is looking better than I thought it would for most of the games (3rd periods excluded), everyone on the team seems happy, and did I mention we have gained important points in the age of parity?

But, winning one goal games (and empty net goals don't make it a two goal game from the point of view of analysis, no matter how great an effort Higgins put in) do not make us a dominant team. We are winning games by one goal, which means that we are about even to every team we are playing.

Huet isn't playing his best, and what I think And-o is saying isn't just that our positions are weak right now, but that we are very suseptible to injuries. If either Koivu or Pleks go down for an extended period of time, we are going to go on a slide. If anyone on that top line goes down, we have lost our most effective scoring threat (they have chemistry, which replacement might not). If Huet played better, could we have dominated that game and one by 2 or 3? Possibly. Could we keep an exciting and aggresive team, like Atlanta or Buffalo, off the scoreboard in the last ten minutes? I very much doubt it.

Everyone should be ecstatic about our 8 point start, but we are not yet in the company of Buffalo, Atlanta, Minnesota, Detroit, Dallas, or San Jose. Those teams are putting teams away and winning games with authority. Yeah we are winning, but we could have just as easily lost some of those games, and over a whole season, we will lose many of those games.

skov1044 · Member

plouf wrote:

Ok, let me be the first naysayer. We're still barely winning games, and looking shaky defending leads.

But hey, nice cushion we're building here.

they scored 5 goals against a team that is considered one of the best defensively

plus they hit the post and kip made some outstanding saves

penalty killing was great as was the power play

more importantly the habs didnt back down and komi took iginla totally out of the game

on the flip side habs took way too many penalties

and huet scares the hell out of me handling the puck

Habtastic · Guru

Maybe Carbo IS reading Barry, because that is pretty much what he said in his post-game interview. Here's hoping we can land and a Conroy, or a Madano, or... eep... maybe even sign Perrault/Allison to fill in our donut before someone takes a bite out of it!

Habtastic

JohnM · Guru

Great points from all. The only thing I want to add is that we had a similar start to the season last year. I think the nickname was the comeback kids... It seems to be better because we are competing for close to 60 minutes where last year it came in spurts. Like Barry said, this is a long season, let's not get too high now and when they lose three in a row, let's not jump ship.

MC Girl · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Great points from all. The only thing I want to add is that we had a similar start to the season last year. I think the nickname was the comeback kids... It seems to be better because we are competing for close to 60 minutes where last year it came in spurts. Like Barry said, this is a long season, let's not get too high now and when they lose three in a row, let's not jump ship.

Indeed..... fairweather fans bug me. We rock right now, but that may not be the case in 2 days, weeks, months.....

....Let's just cheer for our team REGARDLESS of the outcome.

doodie · Veteran Member

Traveling Hab wrote:

Just to play both sides here, there is a lot of good to be said about our possible start, especially the points that go to our final standings, the fact that we were able to score 5 times against a very good defensive team, that Carbonneau seems to have made good on his promise about Bonk, the number 1 and 3 lines look amazing, the number 2 line is starting to show signs of life, the defence is looking better than I thought it would for most of the games (3rd periods excluded), everyone on the team seems happy, and did I mention we have gained important points in the age of parity?

But, winning one goal games (and empty net goals don't make it a two goal game from the point of view of analysis, no matter how great an effort Higgins put in) do not make us a dominant team. We are winning games by one goal, which means that we are about even to every team we are playing.

Huet isn't playing his best, and what I think And-o is saying isn't just that our positions are weak right now, but that we are very suseptible to injuries. If either Koivu or Pleks go down for an extended period of time, we are going to go on a slide. If anyone on that top line goes down, we have lost our most effective scoring threat (they have chemistry, which replacement might not). If Huet played better, could we have dominated that game and one by 2 or 3? Possibly. Could we keep an exciting and aggresive team, like Atlanta or Buffalo, off the scoreboard in the last ten minutes? I very much doubt it.

Everyone should be ecstatic about our 8 point start, but we are not yet in the company of Buffalo, Atlanta, Minnesota, Detroit, Dallas, or San Jose. Those teams are putting teams away and winning games with authority. Yeah we are winning, but we could have just as easily lost some of those games, and over a whole season, we will lose many of those games.

wow! can you think of anymore NEGATIVES as i recall last year we had quite a few 1 goal games,(that we won)would i be right in saying that.As I've said last year and i'll say it again WINNING is contagious,....the positives-----

bonk is flying,
KOVOLEV is off his sleeping pills,
KOMO is frigging standing tall on D,
HUET had a little bit of a lapse(that was his second game lol)
4 games their 3-0-1

Lets talk about going in the right direction,thats a good thing IMHO
Carbo got the furnace heating up and he's adding more friggin coal every game "GO HABS GO"

Desi · Senior Member

Reading this topic I am reminded of so many things I see in the Boston papers about the Red Sox. No matter how well they do or how good they look, there's always someone to bring those who reside on Cloud Nine back to reality.

It's great that there is this kind of discussion, though -- because it underscores what a fickle sport hockey is. Sometimes you win without really deserving to, and sometimes (like Game 1 vs. Buffalo) you lose when you should have won.

Some great points have been made here and I won't repeat them, except to say that the one thing that has gotten me a bit excited so far this year is the play of our special teams. There is NO doubt that the team has benefitted greatly on penalty killing from the coaching they're getting this year. And so far, knock on wood, the power play is going pretty well, too.

I think special teams will be the key to our doing well this year, since -- as so many posters have pointed out -- we really don't have the kind of overpowering team that we see in Buffalo and Dallas.

The season sure is off to a fun start, though.

Les Canadiens sont la

Mad Habber · Member

Well we started really good last year, even tho Theo's play at the time was no better than adequate. Then Theo's play went way south, Julien started playing Huet and lost his job. I don't think Carbo is worried about losing his job if Abi outplays Huet and gets the majority of the starts.

I don't think anyone is planing the parade yet (well maybe a few are, but those are bandwagon fans anyway, they'll be looking up next year's draft lotery picks if we lose 2 or 3 in a row), but I still think we can be optomistic for our team.

Also I think the hit on Downey, not only pumped up the Canadians and got their blood pumping, but I think it did the same for the Flames. The end result was 2 periods of eratic hockey at times, with mistakes in defensive assignments. We got a normal 3rd period out of both teams afterwards.

These one goal games just show that both teams are competing. You look at the Phi-Buf, it was a close game after the first period. In the second, the Flyers weren't even in the game anymore. I think they ran into penalty trouble for a while, and totally lost it then. If I'm right, Buf scored their 2nd goal with a 2-man advantage and the third right away with a 1-man advantage. With all the penalties, it is very easy for the scores to go out of control, especially if your special teams are doing good or bad one in one game.

heet_150 · Guru

Ando wrote:

And-o responds with a few questions...

...imagine this Hab roster WITH a LeCavalier???

...imagine this team WITHOUT a 1a and 1b goalie system? (Huet is shakey)

...how many injuries are we away from Patrick Traverse??

...what happens if we lose a (AS IN, JUST ONE) centreman to injury?

(And-o thinks 'naysayers' have legitimate points)

Lecavalier - Who has to go to bring him in? Is it a goalie? That kinda goes against your 1a and 1b. I would love to see Vinnie in a Habs' jersey, but at what cost?

Traverse - Doubt we'll ever see him up. The Habs have O'Bynre, and Benoit has been impressive as of late. There is still Jancevski. I understand your point of the Canadiens getting thinner and thinner on the blue line with each game, but I've already talked Habgirl in from the ledge regarding Traverse. And, damn me to hell, I'll try to do the same for you.

Losing a centerman at this point and time would be devastating, but, look to the 'Dogs. Chipchura, Locke, Lapierre, Grabovski are all available for short term call ups. Emphasis on short term.

Mad Habber · Member

And another thing, we do have injuries at the time also. 2 regulars out on defense. Granted they are the #5 and 6 defensemen on the team, but that is the strength of the Mtl defense. No Chris Pronger or Niedermayer, or Lidstrom, or Chara, or Redden etc. Just 6 quality guys on the backend who can play at any time of the game (some are better than others). While most teams have a either a rookie or two or an older guy that is a little too slow to be put in some situations. Can you picture Hal Gill on the powerplay, or most rookie defensemen in the last minute of a game, with one man down, up one goal, and the other team pulls the goalie. The #7 and 8 defensemen did a very good job last night.

Also, for a supposedly small and not physical team, losing their toughest forward early in the game against a team that hits like Calgary, we sure didn't shy away. Just imagine for a second, a line of Bulis-Ribiero-Dagenais in last night's game or Dackell-Juneau-Sundstrom with Brisebois and Traverse on D.

plouf · Guru

Mad Habber wrote:

Just imagine for a second, a line of Bulis-Ribiero-Dagenais in last night's game or Dackell-Juneau-Sundstrom with Brisebois and Traverse on D.

Wow....I feel better already.

Gravelbourger · Member

Wow.....that was my point....this board focuses on the negative.....like typical Hab fans. Look at those lines from three years ago again Bulis/Riberio/Dagenais + Juneau/Sunny/Dackell......have we come a long way!!!!! We were out of gas tonight and it really showed in the third period. Keep the faith!

barry33 · Guru

Gravelbourger wrote:

Wow.....that was my point....this board focuses on the negative.....like typical Hab fans. Look at those lines from three years ago again Bulis/Riberio/Dagenais + Juneau/Sunny/Dackell......have we come a long way!!!!! We were out of gas tonight and it really showed in the third period. Keep the faith!

Gravel- in my defence, as a hockey coach, I tend to never be satisfied and I am always expecting the worst, even when things go well. I am always trying to improve my team and in order to do that, you need to take a glass is half empty approach. I do not think that the people on this board are "typical habs fans". They are very anylytical, knowledgeable, and passionate. I can tell you that Carbo and Gainey are not happy with the etams performance to date (in spite of what they say publicly) and know that it is a fine line between a winning streak and a losing streak. Look at Colorado. Last night against the Laffs was their first win. Everyone was asking what was wrong with them. Yet every game they lost was by one goal. Like I said, a fine line.