Lats makes Habs

wright · Veteran Member

Lats makes Habs

chelii chilli · Member

I'm so happy that he will make the team. Carbo said that he will be staying with the team the whole year and not just for 10 games which means that they are serious about this kid.

In my eyes and he's going to make sure that the other team keeps their head up when he's on the ice. That's a good thing.

Figaro · Guru

It seems that he signed a big entry level deal! Akin to Crosby and friends. The time for this kid to make an impact is NOW! I have a feeling that Habs fans are going to enjoy this season despite the ups and downs and mid-level finish. Why? Because we are finally getting a peak at the stars after a long storm.

barry33 · Guru

wright wrote:

RDS is reporting that Latendresse has officially made the Habs roster, and will be signing a contract with the club at 10.00 am this morning. Feel bad for Kotsitsyn, on merit he deserves to also have a shot with the club ahead of Downey.

Wright- dont feel too bad for Kotsysten. I think this was the right choice. If Lats got sent to Jr, they do not have the option to call him up all year. Kotsysten will be the first guy called up when someone goes down or is traded. If I am Kotsysten I get a one month lease in my apt in Hamilton. He will not be there long.

ray · Senior Member

I'm glad if its true Lats will make the team but will the pressure get to this kid, would of loved to seen him play for the Canadian Juniors to improve on his very sub par play last time. I have to wonder if the pressure got to Carbo and Gainey to keep the kid, especially when one of the best players from that Junior team Steve Downie was cut from his NHL team. Is this a case that our team isn't that deep? What happens to Kostistyn, does he or Perez get traded. Hate to see either one of these guys go but to get talent you have to trade talent, and right now the most talent we have are these young kids. If we can land Rafalski or another talented d-man (sorry Traverse, your not the man) than I think we need to make a deal.

macneil · Guru

gainey supposedly gave him a rookie max contract for 3 years , why , can someone explain gaineys thinking here . i hope he didnt throw in the easy reaching bonuses to go with it .

Fatherhab · Senior Member

O'Byrne, Benoit and Jancevski to Hamilton. Jancevski will have to go thru waivers.

barry33 · Guru

macneil wrote:

gainey supposedly gave him a rookie max contract for 3 years , why , can someone explain gaineys thinking here . i hope he didnt throw in the easy reaching bonuses to go with it .

I guess for the same reason that he saw fit to give Ribs 1.9 mill?

AB Habman · Guru

Why? The kid is good but we probably could of had him for less than a more proven junior.

Too much dough already or is Gainey being agent whipped again?

With the three defensmen being sent down...it really means Traverse might see some action. Ouch!

At least I don't have to eat my shorts.

Latendresse is a much needed size. Too many Russians can ruin the soup.

-- Edited by AB Habman at 13:24, 2006-09-29

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

Happy for Lats, sad for Kost, he played brilliantly too, and if no one had to clear waivers, he would have made it ahead of a few guys. It is nice to see that we have some very good players to call up from Hamilton. Kost, Chip, Grabo, Locke (I take back what I said a few weeks back, he looks like he is finally getting it and working hard... hope that continues), and the Defencemen cut today, as well as our checkers like Lapierre.

AB Habman · Guru

wright wrote:

RDS is reporting that Latendresse has officially made the Habs roster, and will be signing a contract with the club at 10.00 am this morning. Feel bad for Kotsitsyn, on merit he deserves to also have a shot with the club ahead of Downey.

I agree Wright. With Murray here doing the dirty work with the enforcer thing and also a better player, We could of kept Kost instead.

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

AB Habman wrote:

wright wrote:

RDS is reporting that Latendresse has officially made the Habs roster, and will be signing a contract with the club at 10.00 am this morning. Feel bad for Kotsitsyn, on merit he deserves to also have a shot with the club ahead of Downey.

I agree Wright. With Murray here doing the dirty work with the enforcer thing and also a better player, We could of kept Kost instead.

Have to disagree with you guys. I know Kost is way more skilled than Downey, but there is no point in having two skilled players in the press box. You may as well have a skill guy and an energy guy, which Downey is. If there are injuries Kost is a plane ride away. Also, Downey's salary is less than Kost's, so for cap space, better to have him there if anyone.

Also, Murray isn't really an enforcer. He is tough, but he wouldn't stand up to any of the big fighters. I love the guy, but we can't call him something he isn't. Whether or not we need an enforcer is another question, but I still say having one who can play and be a plus player is worthwhile.

AB Habman · Guru

Traveling Hab wrote:

AB Habman wrote:

wright wrote:

RDS is reporting that Latendresse has officially made the Habs roster, and will be signing a contract with the club at 10.00 am this morning. Feel bad for Kotsitsyn, on merit he deserves to also have a shot with the club ahead of Downey.

I agree Wright. With Murray here doing the dirty work with the enforcer thing and also a better player, We could of kept Kost instead.

Have to disagree with you guys. I know Kost is way more skilled than Downey, but there is no point in having two skilled players in the press box. You may as well have a skill guy and an energy guy, which Downey is. If there are injuries Kost is a plane ride away. Also, Downey's salary is less than Kost's, so for cap space, better to have him there if anyone.

Also, Murray isn't really an enforcer. He is tough, but he wouldn't stand up to any of the big fighters. I love the guy, but we can't call him something he isn't. Whether or not we need an enforcer is another question, but I still say having one who can play and be a plus player is worthwhile.

I disagree. Murray has proven to drop them with anyone. The closest Downey has come to enforcing against a tough guy was with his shadow boxing skills. Murray puts the fear in the opposition because he's big and can check harder than little Downey also. With Murray having the better skills, he can also play on different lines and be more versatile.

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

I certainly agree that Murray is ahead of Downey on the depth chart, but even if you are right about Murray being a better fighter too (agree to disagree) I still feel that having an extra grinder as one of your two press box forwards makes more sense that having Kost rot there as the second skill forward with no playing time.

What do you feel about Downey anyway? I think he can play, wears people down, and has a similar style as Murray, just that he's not as good at it, and I point to his plus rating last year as evidence that he is good thing for us. (We were a minus team).

barry33 · Guru

Murray took on Jamie Allison of Ottawa last night who is a proven fighter and about 6" taller than Murray.

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

So he's a better fighter than I thought. This is one of those times that I am happy to be wrong. If Murray can enforce, then no need to keep Downey as an enforcer, but how about as a back up energy guy who eats up little cap space and whose skills arent going to waste in the press box?

In the end, the question I am asking isn't Murray or Downey, it's Downey or Kost in the press box. For those who want to cut Downey instead of Kost, what is the reasoning? Is it simply to have the most skilled guys as possible at practice pushing each other always? Do you feel that Downey is deadwood? Should we even bother having 23 guys instead of 22?

I think he should stay, but am curious for reasons why he should go.

barry33 · Guru

Traveling Hab wrote:

So he's a better fighter than I thought. This is one of those times that I am happy to be wrong. If Murray can enforce, then no need to keep Downey as an enforcer, but how about as a back up energy guy who eats up little cap space and whose skills arent going to waste in the press box?

In the end, the question I am asking isn't Murray or Downey, it's Downey or Kost in the press box. For those who want to cut Downey instead of Kost, what is the reasoning? Is it simply to have the most skilled guys as possible at practice pushing each other always? Do you feel that Downey is deadwood? Should we even bother having 23 guys instead of 22?

I think he should stay, but am curious for reasons why he should go.

Good points. I agree with you 100%. Look guys, the 4th line on this team is not gonna see much ice. Leave that role to the Murrays and the Downeys and the Bonks who you can car eless about their development. Cutting Downey loose frees up a roster spot but why bother? So Kots can languish away on the 4th line and n ot seeing any ice? makes no sense.

plouf · Guru

I accept that Murray can fight, etc...

But I doubt he scares anyone much.

Downey is a bigger hitter than Murray, and more of a fighter - at least in terms of threat, and that's an important thing...and with Souray injured he will probably have to take on a bigger role as an enforcer. There's no point in bringing Kostitsyn up to play on the fourth line. It's bad enough that it looks like we will see Perezhogin on the fourth line, further stunting his already uneven development.

AB Habman · Guru

plouf wrote:

I accept that Murray can fight, etc...

But I doubt he scares anyone much.

Downey is a bigger hitter than Murray, and more of a fighter - at least in terms of threat, and that's an important thing...and with Souray injured he will probably have to take on a bigger role as an enforcer. There's no point in bringing Kostitsyn up to play on the fourth line. It's bad enough that it looks like we will see Perezhogin on the fourth line, further stunting his already uneven development.

Disagree again. The only real fight Downey has had was when he skated backwards against(sorry I forget) then got clocked.

Murray has shawn that he won't shy away where I think Downey does. Murray is a better player also and has more threat on any given line to enforce or even score.

To get back to what this is about. Who I prefer to sit in the press box and be available to play...it's Kost hands down. We can't be scared to carry the best players. That's what depth is all about. Kototsyn is a skilled player but sitting back and learning the game may be just what the doctor ordered. Remember Thornton, Burns had him sitting in the press box almost a whole season because he simply needed to learn the game. The tools were there but not the tool box!

Also when it comes to draw from the press box due to injury etc. Kost can then fill on any line. Downey is limited to fourth line only. I really think to alternate Kost and Perez is the way to go. Keep them both hungry while being students of the game. At this point in their career, they need a tool box to place their tools in.

Again, keeping Downey around is useless when you have Begin and Murray in the line-up. Rivet and Souray are also tough while bringing leadership.

Guys, let's not be so concerned about being too passive with these Russian youngsters. They will adapt and learn the game while playing even part time, learning from the vets, while watching and playing with them.

let's load up with the most talent possible on this roster and go forward in this new NHL. Look at the Sabres. Tons of injuries last season including the playoffs but hung in there with young talent.

Also, teams are now only carrying one enforcer type player per team. Just can't burden the Cap space with these players in this new NHL. The better skilled that enforcer is helps tremendously. It's like not wasting a roster spot at all. That's the feeling I get with Murray. He isn't wasting a spot.

-- Edited by AB Habman at 17:04, 2006-09-29

plouf · Guru

We can agree to disagree I guess AB.

For me a guy like Downey is the ideal 13th forward. Kostitsyn OR Perezhogin makes more sense to me just at this moment. It's not like Kostitsyn won't get his chance this year. Someone will get injured.

I like that we have a couple of physical forwards who can intimidate (and I include Kovalev in that category, because he does intimidate in his own way)...FOR ONCE. I like the mix of grit, skill and speed. All I ask for is a top flight centre. And no more injuries on defense.

AB Habman · Guru

plouf wrote:

We can agree to disagree I guess AB.

For me a guy like Downey is the ideal 13th forward. Kostitsyn OR Perezhogin makes more sense to me just at this moment. It's not like Kostitsyn won't get his chance this year. Someone will get injured.

I like that we have a couple of physical forwards who can intimidate (and I include Kovalev in that category, because he does intimidate in his own way)...FOR ONCE. I like the mix of grit, skill and speed. All I ask for is a top flight centre. And no more injuries on defense.

I respect your position Plouf but it makes for interesting debate

Anyone else have anything to add?

Fatherhab · Senior Member

Right now I have to agree that we keep either Downey or Murray but not both. Toughness becomes an issue only against teams that have players who can ice tough (skilled players). Not a whole lot of teams can do that. The Sens for example, are not so sure that they will need to have a guy like McGratton in their lineup anymore. They already have a couple other tough guys(Neil and Allison) who have other roles plus can be a toughie if needed. The Habs just don't have the luxury of carrying extra fourth line players simply for the purpose of being a tough guy. As it stands, we are already a team of too many 3rd and 4th liners.

11rings · Member

I disagree with getting rid of Downey, I think many underestimate the presence this guy brings to the dressing room. Does anyone remember how nuts the habs bench went when Downey scored last year... granted he doesn't score often, but the team knows that he goes out there and tries his best. We all know the Habs lack good character guys in the dressing room and I think both Gainey and Carbonneau know what this guy is capable of. He was never a liability on the ice last year and I don't think he will be going forward.

AB Habman · Guru

11rings wrote:

I disagree with getting rid of Downey, I think many underestimate the presence this guy brings to the dressing room. Does anyone remember how nuts the habs bench went when Downey scored last year... granted he doesn't score often, but the team knows that he goes out there and tries his best. We all know the Habs lack good character guys in the dressing room and I think both Gainey and Carbonneau know what this guy is capable of. He was never a liability on the ice last year and I don't think he will be going forward.

Are you basing it on a lack of leadership in the dressing room? I'm sure Downey is well liked but the landscape of the new NHL is that teams can no longer fill their roster with players that don't offer anything extra on the ice but are well liked off of it. Every roster spot is important to ice the best team possible. Murray is the better player and along with Souray, Begin and Rivet will provide the toughness we need. Also with Downey, he's lilimted to only playing wing on the fourth line. I would prefer to see some speed and skill along side Bonk and Begin. These two are so defensively responsible that they can throw Kost or Perez on that line and that inexperienced player can still strutt his stuff without the added pressure of worrying who their check is. That will add another demension of balance to our team. Another line that other teams will have to respect.

NEWFIEHABSFAN · Senior Member

with this signing, how will it affect the cap space?

Nil d · Guru

wright wrote:

RDS is reporting that Latendresse has officially made the Habs roster, and will be signing a contract with the club at 10.00 am this morning.

Fantastic news! There was no other choice!

Traveling Hab · Veteran Member

Ok guys, let's remember that as it stands right now, Latendresse just took Perezhogin's spot on the team, and he therefore is stiiting in the pressbox with Traverse and Downey. They might alternate Murray and Perezhogin depending on specific needs for gaes and who is playing well, and Perez will get places on lines when a skill guy is playing badly. Really, he is there for injuries and because waivers won't let us send him down to get ice time.

Does it make any sense to have Kost in that situation as well? And does anyone think a fourth line of Bonk, Perez and Kost would be a good fourth line? Those rookies are offesive talents, not grinders or shut down artists.

Why have both Kost and Perez rotting away? Why? I would much rather have Kost playing in Hamilton with Grabo! Those two will be two thirds of our number one line in a year or two. Let's get them used to each other. And Downey isn't there to fill in for injuries. In cases of injuries, there are call ups from Hamilton. Downey is there to fill in for players playing badly. If Perez replaces on the top 3 lines and Downey fils in on the fourth, we have all lines covered for weak play or sore shoulders.

And I will fight hard to get rid of this misconception that Downey is deadwood that some seem to have. When we dressed a fourth line of Begin, Murray, and Downey some games last season, they were plus and wore opponents down. They gave the Habs a boost while taking morale from the other team. Downey does not just fill a leadership role (which is ONE of his attributes) but he brings other great advantages. He works hard, defends team mates (though there is disagreement on how well he fights), hits hard, plays well defensively, hits hard (maybe not as hard as Murray or Begin mind) and takes shots on net.

And for NewfieHabsFan, the signing doesnt really affect cap space since anyone taking the 14th forward spot would get a similar salary. Maybe a little more or a little less. Had we only gone with 22 players instead of 23 like some teams, then we could have saved his entire salary, but not have him available.

wright · Veteran Member

Fatherhab wrote:

Right now I have to agree that we keep either Downey or Murray but not both. Toughness becomes an issue only against teams that have players who can ice tough (skilled players). Not a whole lot of teams can do that. The Sens for example, are not so sure that they will need to have a guy like McGratton in their lineup anymore. They already have a couple other tough guys(Neil and Allison) who have other roles plus can be a toughie if needed. The Habs just don't have the luxury of carrying extra fourth line players simply for the purpose of being a tough guy. As it stands, we are already a team of too many 3rd and 4th liners.

Agree with you Father. For years now the Habs have ranked in the bottom third in team scoring. At this stage the Habs do not have a single player in the lineup that is a threat to hit 40 goals, or 100 points. The club needs all the offence it can get. Yes Downey does provide some intangibles, but I would rather have a fourth line that has skill and scoring ability, it would provide a mismatch for the Habs against other fourth lines in the league. A fourth line withPerez and Kots and Begin is more appealing than having Downey or Bonk weighing down any offensive creativity. If the line performs well with limited minutes give them more ice time, maybe it will motivate the likes of the ever underacheiving Kovalev to play at the level he is capable of, if not he sees his minutes reduced for the more productive "kids".

Additionally Kots has a rocket for a shot, I think it would be great for him to be utilized in shootout scenarios, which given how much parity there is, become all the more important to win for that extra point. Kots shot in that situation would be more helpful than downey's cheerleading from the bench. That is not menat as a cheapshot at Downey, its just that the game under the new rules has changed, and the role of the enforcer is not needed as much now as skill is.

AB Habman · Guru

Traveling Hab wrote:

Ok guys, let's remember that as it stands right now, Latendresse just took Perezhogin's spot on the team, and he therefore is stiiting in the pressbox with Traverse and Downey. They might alternate Murray and Perezhogin depending on specific needs for gaes and who is playing well, and Perez will get places on lines when a skill guy is playing badly. Really, he is there for injuries and because waivers won't let us send him down to get ice time.

Does it make any sense to have Kost in that situation as well? And does anyone think a fourth line of Bonk, Perez and Kost would be a good fourth line? Those rookies are offesive talents, not grinders or shut down artists.

Why have both Kost and Perez rotting away? Why? I would much rather have Kost playing in Hamilton with Grabo! Those two will be two thirds of our number one line in a year or two. Let's get them used to each other. And Downey isn't there to fill in for injuries. In cases of injuries, there are call ups from Hamilton. Downey is there to fill in for players playing badly. If Perez replaces on the top 3 lines and Downey fils in on the fourth, we have all lines covered for weak play or sore shoulders.

And I will fight hard to get rid of this misconception that Downey is deadwood that some seem to have. When we dressed a fourth line of Begin, Murray, and Downey some games last season, they were plus and wore opponents down. They gave the Habs a boost while taking morale from the other team. Downey does not just fill a leadership role (which is ONE of his attributes) but he brings other great advantages. He works hard, defends team mates (though there is disagreement on how well he fights), hits hard, plays well defensively, hits hard (maybe not as hard as Murray or Begin mind) and takes shots on net.

And for NewfieHabsFan, the signing doesnt really affect cap space since anyone taking the 14th forward spot would get a similar salary. Maybe a little more or a little less. Had we only gone with 22 players instead of 23 like some teams, then we could have saved his entire salary, but not have him available.

You add that Downey is a plus player on that line. I think if I played on that line, I would be also by committee. Trust me, Kost, Perez or even Ribs would be a plus player. There is plenty there with Begin and Bonk to shut down any line. Why not also add a scoring offensive threat on that line? We don't need a goon on that line just because it's a fourth line.

You also can't assume who will sit in the press box. Who will be injured. Who will be playing poorly. What you can control is who is available to you to throw on the ice when need be. Why not have the best players available? That's what depth is all about. Even if Perez and Kost play 20 games each through the whole season, that doesn't mean they're rotting away. They're still practicing and learning the game with men and good coaching. Also, like I said, it's possible Bonk or even Lats will be benched here and there. You just don't know how the season will play out. In that case, let's have the best roster available.