Bouillon - valuable or not

JohnM · Guru

Bouillon - valuable or not

Jonny G · Senior Member

A strong argument can certainly be made that Bouillon is a 7th D, especially considering how well Streit has been playing.

I hesitate to link the Habs' winning streak to Bouillon's absence. The entire team has picked up its play during that stretch. No reason to suggest that the results would have been different had Bouillon been in the lineup -- especially considering that Simpson had played a few of those games. I would value Bouillon higher than Simpson.

mperra (Admin) · Guru

You can also add that with an 8 game winning streak, what is Richard Zednik's value to the team? Personally, I would take Bulis over Zednik.

And have you noticed, that Bulis will most likely finish the season with 20+ goals and he missed so many games because he was benched? Interesting.

Saku11 · Senior Member

i completely disagree. Its unfair to say the canadiens are on this streak and area better team without Boullion. Boullion is a top six Dman in this league and has proven to be so. He physical and very quick skater and best of all plays consistantly. This is like saying the canadiens went through that winless streak because of koivu. Doesnt make sense. We have shown we can win with Him in the line up and in my opinion Boullion is far better than Streit. This streak is credited to hot goaltending and a well arranged Combo of lines that accentuate each other. Not because Boullion is out.

-- Edited by Saku11 at 16:18, 2006-04-07

Nil d · Guru

Jonny G wrote:

A strong argument can certainly be made that Bouillon is a 7th D, especially considering how well Streit has been playing. I hesitate to link the Habs' winning streak to Bouillon's absence. The entire team has picked up its play during that stretch. No reason to suggest that the results would have been different had Bouillon been in the lineup -- especially considering that Simpson had played a few of those games. I would value Bouillon higher than Simpson.

I would too. also would take him any day before Streit, Dandenault, and Komisarek (forgetting the age and potential of Komi), and on some days ahead of Rivet or even Souray.

Speking of Souray, I love the guy and am glad he's found his shot again, but I don't think he's that great defensively, I say this for three reasons:

1. His plus/minus is -6, second worse on the team (Ribeiro -8). He was -10 a couple of games ago.

2. He doesn't hit as much as he should for this size and range.

3. I often see opposing forwards undress him (I still can't get that Spezza play from months ago out of my mind).

That said, I love the guy for what he brings to the power play and the passion and team play that he brings to the team.

Anyone agree with my assessment?

Jonny G · Senior Member

Nil,

Dandy, Komi, and Streit have been playing well for the last few games. I think that the way to look at it is that the Habs' (newfound) depth on defence gives them a luxury of going with the players who are performing at that particular time.

It's a good problem to have.

Saku11 · Senior Member

Nil d wrote:

2. He doesn't hit as much as he should for this size and range. 3. I often see opposing forwards undress him (I still can't get that Spezza play from months ago out of my mind).

Nil, i kinda agree. To hit someone requires risk and I think ever since that play, Souray has been thinking to Himself not to over commit. That play was a total embarrassment because he over commit to the hit and a skillful guy Like Spezza took advantage. So i think he has been taking the safe Route and holding his hits for safer ones. thats may take

heet_150 · Guru

Nil d wrote:

Speking of Souray, I love the guy and am glad he's found his shot again, but I don't think he's that great defensively, I say this for three reasons: 1. His plus/minus is -6, second worse on the team (Ribeiro -8). He was -10 a couple of games ago. 2. He doesn't hit as much as he should for this size and range. 3. I often see opposing forwards undress him (I still can't get that Spezza play from months ago out of my mind). That said, I love the guy for what he brings to the power play and the passion and team play that he brings to the team. Anyone agree with my assessment?

I'm (believe it or not) on the fence with your assessment. First, I'm one of those people* that thinks plus/minus is an overrated stat, unless it is way out of whack (ie - +100 or -70). Second, I think he doesn't use his size as much as most of us would like him to, because of the new rules. He has taken some penalties late in the game becuase of his exuberance. So I tend to give him a break on that one. And lastly, never mind Spezza, how about when Chara undressed him???

I too love the character he brings to the team, and I hope he remains a Hab for a long time.

*Not that there is anything wrong with that.

heet_150 · Guru

Saku11 wrote:

Not because Boullion is out.-- Edited by Saku11 at 16:18, 2006-04-07

I agree, except for a different reason. I think they have been winning because for the first time in a long time, the whole team appears to be firing on all cylanders. On any given night, nobody knows which line is going to sparkle more than the others. One night, Koivu, Higgins and Ryder play out of this world. The next, it's Begin, Bonk and Downey. Last night, Ribeiro is on fire. Which makes me wonder why BG (or is it GC?) continues to tinker with the lines so late in the season. But, that's a topic for another thread.

24 Rings · Guru

heet_150 wrote:

On any given night, nobody knows which line is going to sparkle more than the others. One night, Koivu, Higgins and Ryder play out of this world. The next, it's Begin, Bonk and Downey. Last night, Ribeiro is on fire. Which makes me wonder why BG (or is it GC?) continues to tinker with the lines so late in the season. But, that's a topic for another thread.

I have been saying all along, there is a method to BG's madness. He looks like a genius now because he's got this team playing so well.

Interesting note to everyone who bitches about Koivs production: 0.89 points per game.

Habtastic · Guru

I think of Bouillon as our Begin on Defence. He is a 6th D or maybe 7th on a team with an elite defence. As for Souray, he is at best a #3 D and that is because of his lack of decision making and mobility which makes him vulnerable to being 'undressed'. I certainly wouldn't get rid of either of them. I still think Dandy (a converted forward) should be used as a forward beside Bonk and Begin so that we can always have 7 D in the line-up and then we could continue to use Streit until we can pick up a top-two D this summer.

Habtastic

plouf · Guru

Habtastic wrote:

I think of Bouillon as our Begin on Defence. He is a 6th D or maybe 7th on a team with an elite defence. As for Souray, he is at best a #3 D and that is because of his lack of decision making and mobility which makes him vulnerable to being 'undressed'. I certainly wouldn't get rid of either of them. I still think Dandy (a converted forward) should be used as a forward beside Bonk and Begin so that we can always have 7 D in the line-up and then we could continue to use Streit until we can pick up a top-two D this summer.

Habtastic

Bouillon is a #5-6 D-man (on a good team) who adds a lot of heart to the lineup. He has played like a #3 d-man for much of this year. It seems like jumping to conclusions to say we are doing better because he is out of the lineup. Certainly Komisarek, Dandenault or Streit have not been better than Bouillon this year. And even Souray was outclassed by him for half the season.

habs93 · Veteran Member

If you have the proper system in place - the players can become inter-changeable parts : Cube/Streit/Bulis/Murray etc but if you do not have great goaltending - no system is going to work.......

Key Lime · Guru

Well, I guess the old saying "OUT OF SIGHT, OUT OF MIND" holds true for some people. If Bouillon was in the line up instead of Streit in the last 9 games, his plus/minus would of changed a little, don't you think? I can't believe we are comparing Streit and Bouillon. Remeber Bouillon? Quick, tough as nails, big heart, good stick handler...valuable or not? I'm sure all the team in the leaugue would not hesitate to pick this guy up if he was availble...and we are talking about Streit taking over his spot?

Ok, let's put this into perspective...In the playoffs when the intensity is doubled and we are playing either Carolina or Ottawa...who would you rather have Bouillon or Streit? I don't mean to be dramatic but this post almost feels disrespectful to a player like Bouillon...hey, it's your opinion.

Habs and Avs Fan · Veteran Member

He's very valuable to us, remember how well he was playing when he went into the boards hard, he was by far the best player on the ice that night, he has some really good nights, I miss him. The little guy with a huge heart, he never takes a bad penalty, rarely, he's one of the fastest skaters on our team, he can deke, he has a good shot. He's ten times better than Streit, Komi and of course Simpson. He'll make our winning team even better, better defensively for sure. He plays a better defensive game than Rivet and Souray I find, more stable.

barry33 · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Is it a coincidence that the Habs 8 game winning streak started the game when Bouillon went down to injury. I know the guy hits alot and can skate but it seems the team is better when he isn't in the lineup. In my opinion he should be no more than a 7th defenceman on this team.

Just amazing how a few wins changes people's opinions. I was one of the few guys all along saying that Streit brings something to this team that we needed. MOBILITY and PUCK MOVEMENT. That was why he was in the lineup. Yet many here were calling him a bum and calling for his head. Now he is in the top 4 or 5?? And many of you had Bouillon as number 2 behind Markov, now we have one a few games without him and he should sit? GOALTENDING boys and girls GOALTENDING. Ottawa fired 44 shots at Abby. If he played like he did in his previous starts, we lose, plain and simple. 44 shots against a skilled team like Ottawa is NOT good defense, it is playing with fire. On the other hand, Habs fired 27 at a very ordinary looking Ray Emery and scored some pretty questionable goals (Koivu's for one). THe biggest part of this resurggence has been due to Huet and an overall better team effort. Not defence.

Habs and Avs Fan · Veteran Member

barry33 wrote:

JohnM wrote:
Is it a coincidence that the Habs 8 game winning streak started the game when Bouillon went down to injury. I know the guy hits alot and can skate but it seems the team is better when he isn't in the lineup. In my opinion he should be no more than a 7th defenceman on this team.
Just amazing how a few wins changes people's opinions. I was one of the few guys all along saying that Streit brings something to this team that we needed. MOBILITY and PUCK MOVEMENT. That was why he was in the lineup. Yet many here were calling him a bum and calling for his head. Now he is in the top 4 or 5?? And many of you had Bouillon as number 2 behind Markov, now we have one a few games without him and he should sit? GOALTENDING boys and girls GOALTENDING. Ottawa fired 44 shots at Abby. If he played like he did in his previous starts, we lose, plain and simple. 44 shots against a skilled team like Ottawa is NOT good defense, it is playing with fire. On the other hand, Habs fired 27 at a very ordinary looking Ray Emery and scored some pretty questionable goals (Koivu's for one). THe biggest part of this resurggence has been due to Huet and an overall better team effort. Not defence.

Very well put. Some of the fans are typical ones so they don't notice that our D hasn't been good. But we have been outshooting opponents recently. And I would never rank Streit over anyone except Simpson, did you see him against Ottawa, he looked horrible, giving the puck away and shooting it 20 feet high.

Habual · Member

Is Steve Begin the best forward on the team? Certainly not. But he is as critical a member because of the way he plays and the intensity he adds to every shift. I think it could be argued that Bouillon was cast from the same die. I think the team will be that much better when he returns to the lineup.

plouf · Guru

I agree that Streit is not a bum. He looks like a legitimately useful player lately. He actually has a pretty good shot and instincts on offense now that he seems to have a bit of confidence back. I still don't see him sticking on the team next year though.

Notice how when players are new to a team they often struggle for a while?

Kovalev, Bulis, Zednik, Bonk, Souray, Dandenault
-all these guys struggled at the start of their Habs careers... I think you could even add Begin and Sundstrom, but I can't remember with them...and that's not even bringing up rookies from the farm system.
Sometimes new guys are trying too hard, sometimes they're too tentative. Whatever.
Almost all of those guys eventually turned it around and became important players.
(not to say that some of them haven't sunk back into the muck, but that's another story)
So Downey, Streit and Aebischer....who knows at this point?