i think this post is kind of tasteless and immature. Sorry

It was Koivu's hard work and drive to the net that allowed Higgins to pick up a loose puck and score the winning goal. He has something like 6 assists in the last 4 games. Personally I could care less if he scores a goal the rest of the year as long as he keeps setting up Higgins and helping Chris Higgins develop as a hab. I have been the first to call out Koivu on here and will continue to do so but I am sorry, in this case it is not warrented. He has been playing harder and smarter, and is doing all the things a Captain should do now. And I give him credit.

barry33 wrote:

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It was Koivu's hard work and drive to the net that allowed Higgins to pick up a loose puck and score the winning goal. He has something like 6 assists in the last 4 games. Personally I could care less if he scores a goal the rest of the year as long as he keeps setting up Higgins and helping Chris Higgins develop as a hab. I have been the first to call out Koivu on here and will continue to do so but I am sorry, in this case it is not warrented. He has been playing harder and smarter, and is doing all the things a Captain should do now. And I give him credit.

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Amen, what does it matter if he scores goals??  Goals aren't everything in hockey, assists and strong two way play are important.  Koivu has played great recently, lets get off his back.  I'd rather him play the way he has then have 4g in his last 4games, be a -4 and have four losses instead of wins.

macneil wrote:

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after lasynights game koivu was taken to nearby hospital where he was treated for being snake bitten , he had to many chances (8-shots)not to score last night , bob gainey said it was a precautionary move and expects koivu to be in the lineup for thursdays game against the caps . lol

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By far the best forward on the ice last night. What matters more - whether he scores or anyone on his line scores? As long as Higgins or Ryder have the scoring touch who CARES who gets the goal. What's important is that Koivu's line produces and Koivu creates scoring chances. They've been doing that in the past 4 games. It's all about the W my friends.

not jumping on ya macneil, i jusst got scared when i read the Title. thats all

At least he's taking the shots. SOme were complaining that he didn't take any shots and now that he does he still gets dumped on. 8 shots is hardly snake bitten. You can't take 8 shots and not have played an effective game, right?

 Gainey mentioned after the first Laffs game that Saks isn't a goal scorer but a playmaker. If he keeps setting up goals, I wouldn't care if he ever scores again. He's finally contributing in a positive way and that line has chemistry now. Keep her going Saks but keep some of those passes for the playoffs. That's where you'll need to be at the top of your game!

Muller93 wrote:

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AB Habman wrote:  He's finally contributing in a positive way and that line has chemistry now. Huh? He has been contributing solid performances all year... either in the defensive zone or the offensive zone. You may not enjoy that technical defensive zone coverage AB, but Koivu is very good at it. And that is contributing. It seems to me that Koivu is over-rated as a point producer( although he is still good for .75ppg) and WAAAAYYYY under-rated as a mucker and defensive forward. Koivu is worth every penny due to that versatility. And that's a fact.

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 I don't think he has been solid all season at all! This is the most solid he's been all season and that whole line deserves credit for that.

 With all due respect, we will never agree on this so AB will refrain from getting into another big Saks debate.

To put some perspective on that though Nil, the league is up around 20% in scoring, so you'd expect Koivu to be too. His offensive production actually hasn't been up to his usual level.

On the other hand, who cares the way things are going now? He's buzzing around like his old self and making things happen. I don't know what his stats have been (seems like around 1 point per game since the break), but the fact that he hasn't scored a goal hasn't really been that big of a deal with his overall effect on the team, and his line in particular. Adam Oates didn't score many goals either, but nobody complained about his offense.

+/- is a vastly overrated stat though.

Let's recall that Pierre Dagenais had one of our best +/- ratings last year. Often guys who are called upon to face other teams' top lines (i.e. 1st and 3rd line players) get lower +/-, while 2nd line players are favoured. I recall over a decade ago having an argument with someone (probably a Laff fan) who said Carbonneau wasn't a great defensive player because he never had a great +/- rating.

barry33 wrote:

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 if you are going to tie up 1/8th of your cap space on one player, you need to expect him to produce points. To me, 5 million a year for a "mucker and defensive forward" is too much in the new reality.

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I disagree. Who would you rather have going into the playoffs....Kirk Muller or say...Spezza? On any stanley cup winning team you need a premier mucker/grinder/offensive AND defensively gifted player. Not many guys in the league with that kind of versatility...very few in fact.

The big point producer's are commanding 7mil per season. I think if Gainey lands a solid first line center for around 6.5mil/season( and thanks to the theo dump and pending 1mil Ribby dump...we can afford it), then Koivu is perhaps the "perfect" second line center.

You see Gainey is not stupid...he knows that you can't have two sweetheart centers( ie both big point producers with little else to offer). Your second line center needs to be really good at all aspects of the game...not nessesarily a big point producer. Gainey knows what he is after in the off season, and also knows that Koivu will perhaps be the best second line center in the game...well worth the 5 mil/season.

And no, I am not saying Koivu is a Kirk Muller...just similar in that they both could do just about everything well.

I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying it skews the plus/minus stats so much that they are unreliable is all. Take a look at some plus/minus stats from the past. There are so many anomalies that it just isn't a useful stat to pay attention to.

There's nothing weird about saying that if you regularly put one line up against the other team's top line, it doesn't matter how well you play, your line is more liable to play a certain amount in your own end than if you were against a weaker line. This is pretty basic logic.

24 Rings wrote:

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I can see your argument, plouf, but it still doesn't make any sense if you think about it.  The point is to put in more goals in than the other guy and if you are a "-" then you obviously aren't doing that.  You are basically saying that a line that covers other teams top lines should be expected to have a low +-?  So that means they don't score and regularly get scored on?  Why would you play them if that is the case? 

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