For all the uber-linear team-definers

brooklynhabfan · Guru

For all the uber-linear team-definers

Desi · Senior Member

You raise some interesting questions, Brookie. I know there's been a lot of debate on this board about leadership, about the team's captain, and about pulling for the team through thick and thin. I prefer not to enter into that quagmire for the most part and would rather try to take an honest look at what the players are doing on the ice (as a team and individually).

But the point you've raised begs a serious question: why do other teams whose rosters "on paper" don't seem as strong as The Canadiens' perform better on the ice?

I do believe that there's a leadership issue with the team, and for my money it comes from the top. Gainey has a style and it's not going to change. He has a vision for the team and a system he wants to play by -- and those are not likely to change. No doubt he has a two-year plan, a three-year plan and a five-year plan all aimed at moving the team closer to the ultimate goal of capturing a 25th Cup. But in the meantime, a lot of people are in pain, including a lot of fans on this board who talk about "our" captain, "our" lack of offense, "our" goaltending, "our" chances — as if all of us were indeed on the ice right along with the boys.

Short of the implied threat to trade a player (someday — after this season is over), I don't see how Bob Gainey is motivating or leading this team. What tools is he using? Does anyone know? He's as quiet as a churchmouse during games. Is he the same way in practice?

I'm not a big fan of obnoxious boors like Pat Quinn and I'm not arguing that we should have some loud-mouthed galoot behind the bench. But it seems to me that one thing all winning teams have is passion — and I don't see much of that either on or behind the Montreal bench.

Our Corvette isn't just missing a wheel, it's missing a driver.

Les Canadiens sont la

brooklynhabfan · Guru

Well said, Desi...

I've never felt more disconnect between team, management and myself than I do now.

It's sort of like the year the NFL brought in scabs to play during the strike

Looks like hockey, but not quite...

And you bring up the great point that it's not us.. although we might do a better job these days

At least we'd try!

Frank the Critic · Member

Brooklyn I hear what your syaing but there is also another analogy one must consider. Don't kick a man while he is down. Koivu is down now rather than trying to lift him up we are pushing him further down. Like Barry said it the whole team needs to change its attitude. For example Kovy telling rivet to F*** off, does that contribute to the teams malfortune just as much if not more, as Koivu's inability to play well at this time?

brooklynhabfan · Guru

Neither Koivu or anyone else on the team reads what we have to say...

Even if he did, I doubt anything we could say would bring him down more than his stats this season...

Frank the Critic · Member

But you did not answer my question: does Kovalev's action towards Rivet and teammates in general contribute as much if not more to the teams malfortune than koivu's inability to play well now?

brooklynhabfan · Guru

Frank the Critic wrote:

But you did not answer my question: does Kovalev's action towards Rivet and teammates in general contribute as much if not more to the teams malfortune than koivu's inability to play well now?

The fact that we rely on players that are playing like either Kovy or Koivu is what our problem is...

Jonny G · Senior Member

Frank the Critic wrote:

For example Kovy telling rivet to F*** off

First I've heard of this. Please elaborate.

Frank the Critic · Member

Brooklyn we rely on Kovy now because he is a ctually playing good. Regardless of ihs attitude, he is still on an 8 game point atreak, why wouldn't you rely on him?

brooklynhabfan · Guru

Frank the Critic wrote:

Brooklyn we rely on Kovy now because he is a ctually playing good. Regardless of ihs attitude, he is still on an 8 game point atreak, why wouldn't you rely on him?

Because I saw him play for the Rangers quite a bit... When he shows, he's great, but that's never been relliable...

MC Girl · Guru

Frank the Critic wrote:

But you did not answer my question: does Kovalev's action towards Rivet and teammates in general contribute as much if not more to the teams malfortune than koivu's inability to play well now?

Tired of hearing that Kovalev told Rivet to F***O**...

Have you never told someone to F*** O** out of frustration, anger, to be silly... ??? Did they hold a permanent grudge against you? or was all eventually forgiven?

This season has been frustrating for everyone, especially those that the season affects on a personal level. Hockey is their job, & who wants to go through life with everyone seeing (& complaining about) what a bad job is being done by them & their team.

Who knows what brought those words out....... Hell ...... Who believes it even happened!!! I don't, & even if it did.... I'm sure they've both come to amends & have moved on... I think we should too.

Unless you are sitting on the bench with them & hearing word-for-word what is being said, I'd stop the defamation rumors.

-- Edited by MC Girl at 16:15, 2006-03-22

JohnM · Guru

Actually Brook, if you look at Koivu's stats, he's right around his career average: .81 PPG. The difference this year has been we haven't really had other contributers like we had last time around. Zed, Ribs and Ryder had much better years in 2003/4 and our goaltending wasn't so up and down that year. So I'm not sure Koivu can be blamed for the problems of the team. BG brought Kovy over to bring up our points but he hasn't had much success either...

brooklynhabfan · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Actually Brook, if you look at Koivu's stats, he's right around his career average: .81 PPG. The difference this year has been we haven't really had other contributers like we had last time around. Zed, Ribs and Ryder had much better years in 2003/4 and our goaltending wasn't so up and down that year. So I'm not sure Koivu can be blamed for the problems of the team. BG brought Kovy over to bring up our points but he hasn't had much success either...

I didn't even bring up Koivu, Frank did...

JohnM · Guru

brooklynhabfan wrote:

Even if he did, I doubt anything we could say would bring him down more than his stats this season...

brooklynhabfan · Guru

I didn't say I didn't mention him, just that I didn't bring it up, and it was more a response to Frank's question than a bash...

Really beginning not to care about anyone on this team though, to tell you the truth...

JohnM · Guru

Hmmm... That's not good! C'mon keep the faith.

GO HABS GO!!!

Frank the Critic · Member

Hey brooklyn I told you, yesterday nobody said yah except for one and we lost. As opposed to the first time i did it we got more support. LOL

rwp2le · Guru

Desi wrote:

You raise some interesting questions, Brookie. I know there's been a lot of debate on this board about leadership, about the team's captain, and about pulling for the team through thick and thin. I prefer not to enter into that quagmire for the most part and would rather try to take an honest look at what the players are doing on the ice (as a team and individually). But the point you've raised begs a serious question: why do other teams whose rosters "on paper" don't seem as strong as The Canadiens' perform better on the ice? I do believe that there's a leadership issue with the team, and for my money it comes from the top. Gainey has a style and it's not going to change. He has a vision for the team and a system he wants to play by -- and those are not likely to change. No doubt he has a two-year plan, a three-year plan and a five-year plan all aimed at moving the team closer to the ultimate goal of capturing a 25th Cup. But in the meantime, a lot of people are in pain, including a lot of fans on this board who talk about "our" captain, "our" lack of offense, "our" goaltending, "our" chances — as if all of us were indeed on the ice right along with the boys. Short of the implied threat to trade a player (someday — after this season is over), I don't see how Bob Gainey is motivating or leading this team. What tools is he using? Does anyone know? He's as quiet as a churchmouse during games. Is he the same way in practice? I'm not a big fan of obnoxious boors like Pat Quinn and I'm not arguing that we should have some loud-mouthed galoot behind the bench. But it seems to me that one thing all winning teams have is passion — and I don't see much of that either on or behind the Montreal bench. Our Corvette isn't just missing a wheel, it's missing a driver. Les Canadiens sont la

Very nice post, could be the best opion I have heard yet. I would like to say I couldn't have said it better myself, but I could not have come close to putting it as well. Excellent job.