Our Best..are Not Our Best :o(

barry33 · Guru

Our Best..are Not Our Best :o(

Nil d · Guru

Well I didn't see the game, but your analysis of the current state of affairs appears bang-on. Lack of offense is very frustrating. Ryder in particular seems completely stuck.

What is also frustrating is the bizarro situation that the Habs had a great road trip after the break that we thought would propel them into the playoffs, then have a big string at home - and they start off by losing the first two; and by all accounts looking indifferent in doing so.

The Habs have their season in their hands, in front of their own fans. Time for them to grab that brass ring!

wright · Veteran Member

barry33 wrote:

I said yesterday that our best players had to start being our best players. And it has been painfully obvious, this has not been the case. We were out played, outcoached, out classed, and "outefforted". The only spot we were not outplayed in was in goal. Abby did everything but nail a piece of plywood up and finally, the dyke broke and the floodwaters came in. TSN turning point was Laviolette calling a time out (and-o..have not heard you mention time outs since CJ got canned..does Gainey get a free ride?) and then they score to turn the game around. It is obvious that the Canes players respond to their coach. Habs players have shown indifference, regardless of who is coaching. As for our best players, they have not been. Koivu comes back from the Olympics and rides the emotion and adrenylyn from that for one or 2 games and is not a non-factor (no goals in 13 games while playing major minutes and on the PP). Koivu is, as I predicted, exhausted. The Olympics took the gas out of his tank. Kovalev scores then disappears for 5 games. Ryder has been just horrid in ALL aspects of his game. Actually want to knwo what is plain scary? If we put all bias' aside, 2 of our best players have been Bonk and Ribiero. Bonk is finally starting to show that he can be a good defensive center. He is winning draws, he is using his size in the corners and being very responsible defenisvely. Ribs has actually been hitting (as much as a strand of spaghetti can hit), digging in the corners, and playing within his means. A few things are now obvious to me. Gainey called the coaching shots when he was in the pressbox. Julien got a TON of flack on this board because he kept playing Streit. Hmmm..Streit is still playing. CJ got a ton of flack for playing Ribs so much. Hmmm..Ribs is still playing. Perzhogan continues to look horrible, even on the first line. Julien got a ton of floack for getting fed up with tghis guy and demoting him to Hamilton. Boys, we are in a playoff race. Atlanta is one point back and coming hard. I predict that Atlanta will get in so it will come down to the Habs vs Lighting. If Tampa had goaltending, we would be toast. When will our best players be our best players? When will guys like Koivu step up? Kovalev? Souray? Gainey showed confidence in these guys by not making a trade. Was this confidence misguided? It is beginning to appear so.

Agree to acertain extent with your points, particularly the dismal play of the Habs, so called best players. Koviu has been ineffectual as has Ryder. On a low scoring team with two of your most productive players slumping badly that is a major body blow. In past posts I have lamented the teams poor work ethic over the past 5 years or so, and it seems no matter who the coach is the inconsistent work ethic remains.

Where I disagree with your analysis is in regard to Gainey's personnel moves. The only reason Streit is seeing any ice team is due to Markov's injury. Riberio is seeing more ice time and performing better as in the case of bonk, was due to Gainey demoting those guys to the fourth line when he replaced Julien. In fact Bonk was a healthy scratch for a couple of games as well, the increased ice time came as they started to perform better. What I would like Gainey to do at this point is to use the same approach with ALL the players on the team. That means poor performance = less ice time. As such Koviu,Ryder,Souray should not be exempt from the same criterion that applies to the likes of Riberio,Komisarek and others. If it means something as radical as making Kovalev and or Koviu a healthy scratch to show Gainey's dissastisfaction then so be it, because right now these guys are providing zero offense and have to be held accountable.

barry33 · Guru

Good points wright. At this stage, whatever it takes to wake these guys up. If it means sitting Kovalev or Koivu, so be it. Take no prisioners.

rwp2le · Guru

I agree with most of your points. I really don't think Abby played well at all. He may have made lots of saves, but gave out rebounds on all but a few. 4 of the 5 goals were very shaky. But as for our players, I could not agree more. Plekanac was by far our best player last night. I didnt even notice Koviu on the ice, and Kovalev had 0 finish. Time for our paid guns to put up or shut up.

Key Lime · Guru

barry33 wrote:

Good points wright. At this stage, whatever it takes to wake these guys up. If it means sitting Kovalev or Koivu, so be it. Take no prisioners.

Wouldn't that be a message in BOLD letters to the rest of the team...sitting out your 2 "so-called" stars. Gor for it. BUT let's face it. TheHhabs lost against a powerhouse last night...those guys are soldiers. MTL is not the only team that the Canes have dominated this year. Name me 3 teams that they haven't dominated. Name me 2.

If this was mid-season, sit out whoever you please BUT the games coming up are not against the Canes. We can accumulate points and still make it guys...

Saku11 · Senior Member

Key lime...These guys are only playing when they feel is appropriate. these are grown men not kids. There is not reason why one team should dominate another if that team is focused and prepared with the hunger to play. The Canadiens have shown us this season that they are more worried about their godamn Outfits than making the playoffs. There is only so much you can take from someone who is not performing. Think of it as like a job. If you dont meet your criteria or company's goal, what happens? Do you have the chance to go the company's minors affiliate? Hell no, you get the CHOP!!!!! plain and simple. Time for a revamp

Key Lime · Guru

Saku11 wrote:

Key lime...These guys are only playing when they feel is appropriate. these are grown men not kids. There is not reason why one team should dominate another if that team is focused and prepared with the hunger to play. The Canadiens have shown us this season that they are more worried about their godamn Outfits than making the playoffs. There is only so much you can take from someone who is not performing. Think of it as like a job. If you dont meet your criteria or company's goal, what happens? Do you have the chance to go the company's minors affiliate? Hell no, you get the CHOP!!!!! plain and simple. Time for a revamp

Revamp has to wait till the season is over. What changes can you make now that will....increase their offense for instance? Not much, those are the players we have for now. Make the best with the tools you have this year and don't be reluctant to make the neccesary changes at season's end. Like Barry said, even if you have to trade Kovy, do it if you believe it will make us better.

Saku11 · Senior Member

i know !!! wait until the offseason (i found myself saying this lot this time of year lately) and get most of these players out!!!!

Key Lime · Guru

Saku11 wrote:

i know !!! wait until the offseason (i found myself saying this lot this time of year lately) and get most of these players out!!!!

Like who? Who do you not see improving the Habs situation which will take them to the next level?

My choices:

Zednik

Bonk

Ribeiro

Streit

Dandenault

Ryder

Bulis

Sundstrom

These are not player that have no value but if we want to become a Satanley Cup contender in 2 years, like they say, these players don't have the heart and tools that we need. WE need Chipchura, Latendresse, Cote, Kostyshin...etc as rookies and One #1 line center, one sniper (winger)and 2 top D's through a trade or free agency. Anything less will not meet their 2 year goal.

plouf · Guru

I agree with Key Lime. Yes, the team didn't perform (caveat: only listened on radio), but they were in there against the Canes for half the game. Against 1st or 2nd best team in the NHL. So we are a second-tier team. No doubt. And a lot of players underperforming.

But I think benching Kovalev or Koivu would smack of drama queen type stuff when you are in tight for a playoff spot. It'd be like BG being like Kovalev himself, throwing up his hands in a snit when his linemates don't finish his passes. Ryder maybe. But even though they are well below par Kovalev and Koivu do too many important things to outright bench them. Yet. Maybe soon though.

And I don't totally agree about effort. I think it's execution and mental issues, not so much effort, for the most part (although clearly they gave up after it was 3-1). But I'm just going by how it sounded on the radio and how Wilson was describing it. Effort is nice and everything, but seems to me it's something to do with concentration - like actually hitting the tape on passes, finishing scoring chances, keeping two hands on stick, etc...

Habtastic · Guru

I still think this team has too many chokers. Seems almost every time we have a must win game and/or a game against Toronto, the team crumbles. This is inexperience, youth, but it it is also a few vets who need to move on because they have stopped responding to this team. Gainey and his staff know who they are and I expect some definite changes this summer. I don't think it will be sweeping changes, but there will be moves. I think we will still make the playoffs though. There is still enough grit and goaltending to get us in, but I think it will be a fairly quick exit.

Habtastic

davidb · Guru

Barry, Great post you are an intelectual hockey genious

plouf · Guru

Thought I'd bring this back. I guess it was a week and a half ago when the topic was at its height. When we couldn't score for three games.

Nice to play some crappy teams, like the Laffs twice, because things are looking up.
Here's the stats for the last 6 games (the games since Barry made this post). Seems like our top two lines woke up:

Kovalev, 3 goals, 4 assists
Koivu, 0 goals, 7 assists
Ryder, 4 goals, 2 assists
Higgins, 3 goals, 3 assists
Souray, 3 goals, 2 assists
Markov, 1 goal, 4 assists
Zednik, 0 goals, 5 assists
Bonk, 3 goals, 1 assist
Dandenault, 2 goals, 2 assists
Ribeiro, 0 goals, 4 assists
Streit, 1 goal, 2 assists
etc...
Seems like some people are really coming out of some slumps (Koivu and Zednik still need some goals though).

Anyway, the point is, people are putting up the points, especially on the top lines, which we needed.

We also heard a lot last week about how the offense has been really bad, the trap, etc...
basically because we had 3 straight games where we got one goal.
We also heard that Huet was pretty much the only reason we've been doing so well since the break (9-5-1).

Some of this is partly true.

But let's look at the stats, folks:

We've scored 51 goals since the break (15 games). That's an average of 3.40, which if it was our season average would put us 5th in the league.
We've allowed 40 goals (15 by Aebischer in 3 games, 25 by Huet in 12...wow!), for 2.67 GAA, which would be 7th in the league if it was our season average.

Granted we've played some bad teams, but we also played Carolina, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay twice, and the New York Rangers. Plus the Leafs, who (usually) put up a good fight against us.

In other words, there isn't cause for panic just yet. (I know I say this a lot, but I think it's worth saying again.)
Anyway, since Barry called out Kovy and Koivu (among others) in this thread's opener, we've scored 26 goals in 6 games (4.33).

Hey Barry, maybe they read your posts!
Something happened, anyway.

-- Edited by plouf at 00:28, 2006-03-27

Habtastic · Guru

The Olympic hangover is over...

Habtastic

P.S. Excellent resurrection, Plouf! ;)

barry33 · Guru

Habtastic wrote:

The Olympic hangover is over... Habtastic P.S. Excellent resurrection, Plouf! ;)

Thank you Plouf for resurrecting that post. I believe that, as a coach, hockey is quite simple. We needed our best players to show up and be our best. And we needed offense. The 2 kinda go hand in hand. At any rate. full credit to Les Boys for stepping it up. Now if my Bantam team would only respond as well to a good coach's rant!

Key Lime · Guru

oohhh hold on a second...I think I'm seeing signs of emotion again from our 2 "so-called" top players. Koivu looked better in the last 2 games. He got 3 assists last night and it seemed like he had much more energy and intensity. Kovy crushes Tucker and looks like he hasn't given up on the season. These are good signs guys and gals.

BTW, great title Barry. Just the title creates a deep debate.

Nil d · Guru

plouf wrote:

Here's the stats for the last 6 games (the games since Barry made this post). Seems like our top two lines woke up: Kovalev, 3 goals, 4 assists Koivu, 0 goals, 7 assists Ryder, 4 goals, 2 assists Higgins, 3 goals, 3 assists Souray, 3 goals, 2 assists Markov, 1 goal, 4 assists Zednik, 0 goals, 5 assists Bonk, 3 goals, 1 assist Dandenault, 2 goals, 2 assists Ribeiro, 0 goals, 4 assists Streit, 1 goal, 2 assists etc... Seems like some people are really coming out of some slumps (Koivu and Zednik still need some goals though).

We also heard that Huet was pretty much the only reason we've been doing so well since the break (9-5-1). Some of this is partly true. But let's look at the stats, folks: We've scored 51 goals since the break (15 games). That's an average of 3.40, which if it was our season average would put us 5th in the league. We've allowed 40 goals (15 by Aebischer in 3 games, 25 by Huet in 12...wow!), for 2.67 GAA, which would be 7th in the league if it was our season average. Granted we've played some bad teams, but we also played Carolina, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay twice, and the New York Rangers. Plus the Leafs, who (usually) put up a good fight against us. In other words, there isn't cause for panic just yet. (I know I say this a lot, but I think it's worth saying again.) Anyway, since Barry called out Kovy and Koivu (among others) in this thread's opener, we've scored 26 goals in 6 games (4.33). Hey Barry, maybe they read your posts! Something happened, anyway. -- Edited by plouf at 00:28, 2006-03-27

Great analysis, plouf.

Yes, the boys have been firing on all cylinders the past three games. Our best are our best. It would be nice to see Koivu pop one though, to get that monkey off his back.

I'm still concerned about Zednik, however; I don't know what's up with the guy, but he used to be able to dominate when he was on the ice. Now he's pretty much invisible. He also has a bullet shot, but I haven't seen it in weeks.

Funny when things are going badly, we can't buy a goal, but when we're on a roll, they're given to us! (Thank you, Mr. Welch!)