Kovalev Seems to Get a Free Pass

Key Lime · Guru

Kovalev Seems to Get a Free Pass

barry33 · Guru

Key Lime wrote:

I just wanted to point something out and get your take on it... We've been critical with almost every player on the Habs sometime or other during the season. The players that have been bashed the most are Koivu (a ridiculous amount), Souray, Theodore, Dandenault, Zednik, Ribeiro, and Ryder (just recently). I haven't read one post that has really bashed Kovalev. Yes, I've read how he's a takes nights off and is invisible some nights but never a bashing like the other players. Has he been that good? I put him in the same category as Koivu. They are our two top players and the recieve the highest compensation ($). Yet Koivu gets bashed at every chance and Kovalev seems to escape the real critical stuff. Has Kovalev been that much better than Koivu? He has been better but he's been a little disappointing also, you must admit. AND he seems to be immune to any real harsh opinions at the rate that Koivu has... I think pshycologically we are reluctant to say anything harsh about him because he gets the free pass due to what we heard about him in the past...I'm guilty of it too...Let me ask, is it fair? P.S. Don't refer to old posts where he has been criticised. The message here is more the frequency at which he gets ignored from criticism for an off night. Souray and Koivu has a bad night and look out!!! Like I said I'm guilty of it too BUT why?-- Edited by Key Lime at 20:06, 2006-03-14

I agree. I have been one of his most vocal critics. He is our hired gun. If Koivu is paid to set up goals then Kovalev is paid to put the puck in the net. 17 goals is hardly sniper material

Nil d · Guru

Good post, Limey. A few things factor into it, I think.

First, all the Koivu-bashing has come from 2 or 3 main posters. Vocal ones, yes, passionate ones, yes, frequent posters, yes, but not a large number of them. Most of us quite like the guy, strange as it may seem to these 2 or 3 (including one who bears his name on his avatar).

Second, Kovalev escapes criticism a bit due to his being the team's top scorer, and showing (teasing?) us just enough of flash and dash that he excites and disappoints us in equal doses. Well, maybe not equal doses, but a lot of ho-hum play gets erased from the memory banks by one jump-out-our-seats play. In the same vein, just when he's had 2 or 3 bad games in a row, he gets one great one and all seems to be forgotten and forgiven.

The thing with him, for me, is this: he has more natural talent in his pinky than most of the rest of the players have in their entire body. A guy like Koivu has less size, strength, and natural skill, but manages to squeeze a lot out of these limited resources. I don't know how you'd ever measure this, but Kovalev probably has fewer points per "unit of talent" than anyone. It frustrates the living bejeezus out of me.

(And this is my post #1969. "That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind." )

-- Edited by Nil d at 20:35, 2006-03-14

AB Habman · Guru

For myself, I have been critical of Kovy quite a bit but I realize that even when he is floating around, he's still our best talent.

barry33 · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

For myself, I have been critical of Kovy quite a bit but I realize that even when he is floating around, he's still our best talent.

But see THAT is exactly the attitude on this board that I HATE! Some have said about Koivu "well ya he is having an off year and his play has not been great, but he has not been AS bad as the other forwards". That is the attitude that has us in a position that we are trying to squeak into the playoffs. Why is it, that at the beginning of the year when Julien was doing poorly, I heard form guys like John M and Muller that we had all kinds of talent and speed in guys like Perezhogan etc and that CJ was not utilizing it properly. Now it is "Well we do not have near the talent that Buffalo or Tampa does so we need to play this style"? Be consistent boys.

plouf · Guru

Thing is, Kovalev does not seem like a team player, does not seem like he plays with much emotion, mails it in a lot of the time, does this annoying thing where he may as well throw his hands in the air when something doesn't work (or God forbid, someone else messes up his play), has an irritating smirk on his face a lot of the time, doesn't actually score that many points, rarely backchecks and leaves his forwards hanging a lot of the time... and yet!

Is there anyone else on this team who can really intimidate the way Kovalev can? This guy isn't just exciting, he puts the fear into the opposition. You have to love having a few guys that the opposition HATES.

I think it's changed the whole team to have Kovalev. He could score 50 points a season and he'd still be a gigantic asset just by creating space for teammates and messing up the defense. In a way, that was Koivu's role before Kovy came, the guy who can really skate and dangle with the puck. But Koivu is nowhere near the offensive talent of Kovalev just because Kovalev has such incredible ability to hold off defenders.

So, maybe Koivu and Kovalev deserve a lot of criticism for their low production, but you have to keep in mind how ESSENTIAL they are for so much of the offense generated by the team as a whole. Sorry, but guys like Ryder, Ribeiro, Zednik, Higgins, all are talented...but they need the Kovalevs of the world to get the space...

plouf · Guru

barry33 wrote:

AB Habman wrote:
For myself, I have been critical of Kovy quite a bit but I realize that even when he is floating around, he's still our best talent.
But see THAT is exactly the attitude on this board that I HATE! Some have said about Koivu "well ya he is having an off year and his play has not been great, but he has not been AS bad as the other forwards". That is the attitude that has us in a position that we are trying to squeak into the playoffs. Why is it, that at the beginning of the year when Julien was doing poorly, I heard form guys like John M and Muller that we had all kinds of talent and speed in guys like Perezhogan etc and that CJ was not utilizing it properly. Now it is "Well we do not have near the talent that Buffalo or Tampa does so we need to play this style"? Be consistent boys.

Still sounds like it's all comin' down to CJ here.
Look at our lineup. Any sane person would say we're in the middle of the pack but might get up to 4th-5th in the East if we fire on all cylinders all season.
And believe me, all non-Hab fan commentators are surprised at how well we're doing, without Theo no less.

Key Lime · Guru

All I can say is "wow". Every post has been excellent. To this day I still can't get used to the fact that there are such knowledgable Hab fans that don't live in Montreal. It's amazing actually.

Getting back to the point...we are definately more forgiving towards Kovy because of his skill. The nights that he is on, he could be one of the best players in the league. Having said that, shouldn't that frustrate us knowing that his incredible capabilities are not being used in half of the games he plays? We can only imagine would kind of numbers he would have if he brought his A game every night...But you guys are right, he is very important to our team, he does create a lot of space for other players...and when he doesn't play, we have an awful W/L record.

Figaro · Guru

It pains me no end to see him weave his way from blue line to scoring change, then miss that chance, look up at the rafters, curse and then take a slow stroll back to float halfway back up ice. He's got so much talent. Why can't he play with the passion of Begin or Koivu? You know - miss the net and get yourself back into position to keep the play alive OR from going up into your end. Hope he finds the passion he had to the Habs that he had in the Boston series. That was a man on a mission and (i might be wrong) he seemed to do everything right.

barry33 · Guru

Figaro wrote:

It pains me no end to see him weave his way from blue line to scoring change, then miss that chance, look up at the rafters, curse and then take a slow stroll back to float halfway back up ice. He's got so much talent. Why can't he play with the passion of Begin or Koivu? You know - miss the net and get yourself back into position to keep the play alive OR from going up into your end. Hope he finds the passion he had to the Habs that he had in the Boston series. That was a man on a mission and (i might be wrong) he seemed to do everything right.

Well if you listen to some, the reason that guys like Kovalev did so well at the Olympics was because they had better linemates and bigger ice.

Ando · Guru

Key Lime wrote:

...I haven't read one post that has really bashed Kovalev...Koivu gets bashed at every chance and Kovalev seems to escape the real critical stuff. Has Kovalev been that much better than Koivu? ...is it fair?

That is a fair post...although you pretty much answered your own questions!

Kovalev often seems to get the benefit of the doubt because of his past...just like you stated!

However, And-o thinks that the main difference between the two is that Kovalev is capable of carrying the entire team and being the best player on a nightly basis for an entire season!

...it isn't necessarily "fair" but there is an added degree of responsibility associated with wearing the 'C' in Montreal (hence Gainey's decision to give a 'A' to Kovy I guess).

Nil d · Guru

Ando wrote:

And-o thinks that the main difference between the two is that Kovalev is capable of carrying the entire team and being the best player on a nightly basis for an entire season! ...it isn't necessarily "fair" but there is an added degree of responsibility associated with wearing the 'C' in Montreal (hence Gainey's decision to give a 'A' to Kovy I guess).

Isn't the responsibility of living up to your talent just as weighty?

When I see Kovelev dangle with the puck for 20 seconds, then lose it and cruise around disinterestedly for the next 30, it makes me want to jump on the ice and kick his ass! That to me is a bigger sin. At least Koivu busts his ass the whole time he's on the ice.

(Sorry to have to say "ass" twice in the same post - post #1971 - I dedicate this one to Ken Dryden!)

Key Lime · Guru

Nil d wrote:

Ando wrote: And-o thinks that the main difference between the two is that Kovalev is capable of carrying the entire team and being the best player on a nightly basis for an entire season! ...it isn't necessarily "fair" but there is an added degree of responsibility associated with wearing the 'C' in Montreal (hence Gainey's decision to give a 'A' to Kovy I guess). Isn't the responsibility of living up to your talent just as weighty? When I see Kovelev dangle with the puck for 20 seconds, then lose it and cruise around disinterestedly for the next 30, it makes me want to jump on the ice and kick his ass! That to me is a bigger sin. At least Koivu busts his ass the whole time he's on the ice. (Sorry to have to say "ass" twice in the same post - post #1971 - I dedicate this one to Ken Dryden!)

Look at other skilled players in the league...Ovechkin = he busts his butt every shift. Konawalchuk = he's always looking for open ice and he can grinde. Crosby = you all saw him play; never gives up....

We agreed that he gets a pass on most nights because of his past and his talent...but look at the players I mentioned. I don't see them talking very many off nights. Kovy better consider himself unique. The reason = I think he's the only player in Montreal Canadiens history who hasn't gotten ripped more often for taking nights off. most guys like that have been run out of town...

No kidding Kovy wants to play until he's 50, he saves his energy 1/3 of the season. I still like the guy so far.

barry33 · Guru

Key Lime wrote:

Nil d wrote: Ando wrote: And-o thinks that the main difference between the two is that Kovalev is capable of carrying the entire team and being the best player on a nightly basis for an entire season! ...it isn't necessarily "fair" but there is an added degree of responsibility associated with wearing the 'C' in Montreal (hence Gainey's decision to give a 'A' to Kovy I guess). Isn't the responsibility of living up to your talent just as weighty? When I see Kovelev dangle with the puck for 20 seconds, then lose it and cruise around disinterestedly for the next 30, it makes me want to jump on the ice and kick his ass! That to me is a bigger sin. At least Koivu busts his ass the whole time he's on the ice. (Sorry to have to say "ass" twice in the same post - post #1971 - I dedicate this one to Ken Dryden!) Look at other skilled players in the league...Ovechkin = he busts his butt every shift. Konawalchuk = he's always looking for open ice and he can grinde. Crosby = you all saw him play; never gives up.... We agreed that he gets a pass on most nights because of his past and his talent...but look at the players I mentioned. I don't see them talking very many off nights. Kovy better consider himself unique. The reason = I think he's the only player in Montreal Canadiens history who hasn't gotten ripped more often for taking nights off. most guys like that have been run out of town... No kidding Kovy wants to play until he's 50, he saves his energy 1/3 of the season. I still like the guy so far.

Part of the allure if this franchise as fans, can also be part of it's downside. We tend to remember tradition and past greatness more than any other franchise which is great. However on the other side of the coin, we also tend to let alot more go because of what a player did in the past if that makes sense. To me, I prefer a "what have you done for me lately" approach. I think that even Gainey has been given somewhat of a free ride because of what he did as a player in a Habs uni as well as a GM in Dallas. Past success does not guarantee future success (CJ won a Memorial Cup). I personally could not give a s**t what Kovalev did in Pittsburgh or NY. Or for that matter, in the playoffs 2 years ago. To me, if you are gettiong close to 5 mill a year you best be doing it NOW!

plouf · Guru

Kovy IS annoying. But we're stuck with him until we get an Ovechkin-type guy I think. Right now he's key.

Curious: does anyone know if Kovalev has a history of turning it up a notch when playing with certain players? when playing with Russians, for example?

Key Lime · Guru

plouf wrote:

Kovy IS annoying. But we're stuck with him until we get an Ovechkin-type guy I think. Right now he's key. Curious: does anyone know if Kovalev has a history of turning it up a notch when playing with certain players? when playing with Russians, for example?

He's on the same line as Perez...not sure about his past linemates

-- Edited by Key Lime at 16:55, 2006-03-15

superhab · Guru

I agree on 100 percent, don't say no one because i posted a similar thread earlier in the season, i dug it up and pasted it below.

There's a lot of talk here about floaters but yet this guy seems to escape critsim. Why is that? He's the biggest floater he hardly ever skates hard only sometimes when he has the puck does he seem to go. Even when he has the puck he usally just ends up giving it up because he takes on three guys at once. You can say what you want about Saku and Zednik not performing but at least you can see some hustle in them while Kovalev does squat. To me Kovalev is a bigger dissapointment then Bonk, at least when we got Bonk we knew that he didn't have a huge talent level but Kovalev was supposed to be that 30-40 goal scorer that we need so badly. He does nothing and takes home a big paycheck yet nobody notices, they notice Theo and his big paycheck, and Zednik and his decent paycheck, and Bonk and his paycheck. Yet nobody gives a hoot about Kovalev.

Even look at Kovalev this year everytime he had a big (String of) game(s) it was because he had something to prove. Two years ago in the playoffs he almost lost the series but he came back to be the hero and his goat horns were removed, and he was able to sign a big contract. He got hurt and when he was hurt and he had to prove to the team he was still valuble while hurt. He came back from injury he had to prove his surgery didn't effect his play. He played a great game against Ottawa then dissapered.

-- Edited by superhab at 19:02, 2006-03-15

hockeyman · Senior Member

Here's a guy who should be on at the start of every powerplay. Wether he just came off the ice or not. Double shift him. He is the only player we have that makes things happen,and the more icetime he gets the better he is.

AB Habman · Guru

hockeyman wrote:

Here's a guy who should be on at the start of every powerplay. Wether he just came off the ice or not. Double shift him. He is the only player we have that makes things happen,and the more icetime he gets the better he is.

I agree with that. He's the only guy we have that can handle more ice and play better with more ice. If I were Gainey, I would use him one Ribs line than every second fourth line shift, throw him on with Begin and Bonk.