Zed, Ryder and Saks

AB Habman · Guru

Zed, Ryder and Saks

Ando · Guru

Hey AB...And-o supports the decision to play Huet last night 110%!

This guy is the reason the Habs occupy a playoff position...and Bob darn well appreciates it!

Other than that...And-o agrees completely with your post.

barry33 · Guru

Ando wrote:

Hey AB...And-o supports the decision to play Huet last night 110%! This guy is the reason the Habs occupy a playoff position...and Bob darn well appreciates it! Other than that...And-o agrees completely with your post.

Danis needs to play in Boston for a number of reasons, least of which is fatigue on Huets part. But more importantly, we need a backup that can PLAY. Danis is rotting away on the bench. What happens if Huet gets hurt before the playoffs? We would need to stick a goalie in who had not stopped a puck in game action for 2 months. Either that or send Danis down for a few games and call another backup up. And Koivu has been non-existent since the Olympics. Again, not knocking his effort, but how can I guy dominate in the Olympics (yes bigger ice, better linemates etc etc) and then just disappear?> Cmon Saks!! Give 'er!

Ando · Guru

barry33 wrote:

...Koivu has been non-existent since the Olympics.

Since the break??? That is being pretty generous! What about the 5-7 games leading into the Olympics?

...I'm just glad someone else said it for a change!

Jonny G · Senior Member

Ando wrote:

barry33 wrote:
...Koivu has been non-existent since the Olympics.

Since the break??? That is being pretty generous! What about the 5-7 games leading into the Olympics?

...I'm just glad someone else said it for a change!

I have to partially disagree. Against Philli, Koivu worked hard in the corners and oftentimes came out with the puck. He also worked well behind the net. Not to mention his 3 assists in his first game back from the Olympics.

Key Lime · Guru

Ando wrote:

barry33 wrote: ...Koivu has been non-existent since the Olympics. Since the break??? That is being pretty generous! What about the 5-7 games leading into the Olympics? ...I'm just glad someone else said it for a change!

Yup and his first game back, he got 3 assists. HMMM...non-existent, strange word. Let's say Koivu was not present for those games. Would Higgins be having all this success? Higgins has done it all on his own. Just because he's not getting the points doesn't mean he hasn't been playing decent hockey. Non-existent not "almost non-existent"...very disappointed to here those comments from two guys that I respect the most on this message board.

Ando · Guru

When was Saku's last goal anyway???

barry33 · Guru

Key Lime wrote:

Ando wrote: barry33 wrote: ...Koivu has been non-existent since the Olympics. Since the break??? That is being pretty generous! What about the 5-7 games leading into the Olympics? ...I'm just glad someone else said it for a change! Yup and his first game back, he got 3 assists. HMMM...non-existent, strange word. Let's say Koivu was not present for those games. Would Higgins be having all this success? Higgins has done it all on his own. Just because he's not getting the points doesn't mean he hasn't been playing decent hockey. Non-existent not "almost non-existent"...very disappointed to here those comments from two guys that I respect the most on this message board.

Key Lime- what we need from Saks is what we used to get from him. Consistency. I am not bashing him. But this season it is one good game and then he just is not around. If he is going to be our top center (which I do not feel he should be) we need consistency. We need him to stop taking lazy penalties, we need him to win draws consistently. And yes, we need him to score goals. Do I place all of Saks' value to the habs in terms of points? Of course not. But we do need a consistent contribution from him.

Key Lime · Guru

Ando wrote:

When was Saku's last goal anyway???

You're are quite the comedian

JohnM · Guru

In regards to Saku, he has been back from the Olympics for 5 games, he has 5 assists and is +2. He's averaging about 16 minutes of icetime and about 55% in the faceoff circle.

As a comparison, Kovalev has 2 goals and 4 assists and is +1. He's averaging about 15 minutes a game.

Canadiens are 3-1-1 over that time.

These two guys are playing quite well if you think about the amount of hockey they've played over the last 3 weeks.

I'm not too concerned about our scoring since we've been doing quite well in that department. What worries me is Huet has let in 10 goals in the last two games. Can't win a game when you let in 5. I'm not bashing Huet because he's one of the main reason we are in 8th spot. Just worried he's not up to the #1 role.

Key Lime · Guru

barry33 wrote:

Key Lime wrote: Ando wrote: barry33 wrote: ...Koivu has been non-existent since the Olympics. Since the break??? That is being pretty generous! What about the 5-7 games leading into the Olympics? ...I'm just glad someone else said it for a change! Yup and his first game back, he got 3 assists. HMMM...non-existent, strange word. Let's say Koivu was not present for those games. Would Higgins be having all this success? Higgins has done it all on his own. Just because he's not getting the points doesn't mean he hasn't been playing decent hockey. Non-existent not "almost non-existent"...very disappointed to here those comments from two guys that I respect the most on this message board. Key Lime- what we need from Saks is what we used to get from him. Consistency. I am not bashing him. But this season it is one good game and then he just is not around. If he is going to be our top center (which I do not feel he should be) we need consistency. We need him to stop taking lazy penalties, we need him to win draws consistently. And yes, we need him to score goals. Do I place all of Saks' value to the habs in terms of points? Of course not. But we do need a consistent contribution from him.

Just call me Lime...I've been looking at Saks closely the past 4 games. He's been playing decent hockey, that's why I don't agree that he's been non-exsitent. Is he playing like a number one center. No. Then again, will he ever. To be seen.

We need more consitency from our top 2 lines...Ryder, Perez, and Kovy have also been very inconsitent of late.

Ando · Guru

barry33 wrote:

...If he is going to be our top center (which I do not feel he should be) we need consistency.

AMEN! How is this for top-line centre stats for ya! Just awful!?!?!?

Game
G
A
P
+/-
PIM
PPG
SHG
Sh
Shft
Avg TOI
FO%

24 Games Since Christmas
6
9
15
-3
30
2
0
45
547
17:39
52.7

...just not good enough!!! Simple as that!!!

Muller93 · Guru

Ando wrote:

barry33 wrote:
...If he is going to be our top center (which I do not feel he should be) we need consistency.

AMEN! How is this for top-line centre stats for ya! Just awful!?!?!?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Same three drooling guys harping on Koivu. Hey read JohnM's post.

I don't think Koivu has had his 'A" game in the past three games and said so in a couple of my post game wrap ups.

But You guys just buzz around like little weasels nipping at people's ankle's. Give it a break for cripes sake, read JohnM's post...you guys get excited over the craziest things. He is still real solid out there. Not someting to get excited over. Bleh....!

-- Edited by Muller93 at 11:32, 2006-03-08

-- Edited by Muller93 at 11:35, 2006-03-08

Key Lime · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Ando wrote: barry33 wrote: ...If he is going to be our top center (which I do not feel he should be) we need consistency. AMEN! How is this for top-line centre stats for ya! Just awful!?!?!? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Same three drooling guys harping on Koivu. Hey read JohnM's post. I don't think Koivu has had his 'A" game in the past three games and said so in a couple of my post game wrap ups. But You guys just buzz around like little weasels nipping at people's ankle's. Give it a break for cripes sake, read JohnM's post...it's not someting to get excited over. Bleh....! -- Edited by Muller93 at 11:32, 2006-03-08

It's funny how when the Habs were picking up points every game, Koivu wasn't even talked about. They loose their first game in regular time and it starts all over again.

FACE IT MULLER...SAKS IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE THE WHIPPING BOY

Ando · Guru

Key Lime wrote:

...SAKS IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE THE WHIPPING BOY

...he sure wears it well!

And-o didn't bring it up...the numbers speak volumes though!

Key Lime · Guru

Ando wrote:

Key Lime wrote: ...SAKS IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE THE WHIPPING BOY ...he sure wears it well! And-o didn't bring it up...the numbers speak volumes though!

So if all players are solely based on THE NUMBERS, we should have no board, no opinion, no debates because the numbers SPEAK VOLUMES.

Ok then, Kovy, Ribs, Higgins, Pleks all suck because there point totals are not good (don't dare say they don't cause they are all under Koivu's point totals). Kovy gets paid mega pucks also so don't bring in the salary issue either.

Numbers give you a good indication on how well a player is playing but if you want to solely base it on stats...not a problem, then all the Habs suck!

I use stats more for players who are not Habs cause I don't get to see them every night. It gives me an indication on how they are doing...If I judged a Hab only on stats, I'd be a frustrated MF because when was the last time we had a 100 point player?

They you admit that Koivu, Kovy, Ryder, Theo all underachieved this year, is the day you prove you are not being biased only towards Saks. Until that day, that's the reputation you'll have.

plouf · Guru

AB, I know we disagree about Koivu, but how can you call Perezhogin, Bulis, Ribeiro, Bonk and Zednik among our best forwards and then knock the captain, who has produced 5 points in 5 games and skated his butt off at both ends? What have those guys done lately that Koivu hasn't? Ribeiro, who we are all getting excited about, has only 3 points, playing with Kovalev. And with the exception of Bulis and Bonk, these guys aren't big on backchecking either.

Apparently Koivu is not even a top six forward now? Give me a break. Higgins would not be producing what he does without the space created by Koivu's skating, stickhandling, and all-around smart play. Higgins is not "carrying" that line, although he has been its best player lately. Koivu continues to shoulder the majority of the defensive load, and is still producing points, winning faceoffs, and even pinching in as a penalty killer when needed.

And people wonder why the Koivu-defenders get upset. Your post is full of absurd exaggerations. So are some of the others, frankly. "Koivu has been invisible since the break"...This is just not an objective account of what's going on in the games. It's true that Koivu hasn't been at his best for a while, and I agree he's had one totally invisible game but he is still one of the best guys out there on the vast majority of nights. He is third in scoring on the team since the break, and Higgins is first. Somehow I think Higgins has not achieved what he has with an "invisible" linemate plus Ryder.

Key Lime · Guru

plouf wrote:

AB, I know we disagree about Koivu, but how can you call Perezhogin, Bulis, Ribeiro, Bonk and Zednik among our best forwards and then knock the captain, who has produced 5 points in 5 games and skated his butt off at both ends? What have those guys done lately that Koivu hasn't? Ribeiro, who we are all getting excited about, has only 3 points, playing with Kovalev. And with the exception of Bulis and Bonk, these guys aren't big on backchecking either. Apparently Koivu is not even a top six forward now? Give me a break. Higgins would not be producing what he does without the space created by Koivu's skating, stickhandling, and all-around smart play. Higgins is not "carrying" that line, although he has been its best player lately. Koivu continues to shoulder the majority of the defensive load, and is still producing points, winning faceoffs, and even pinching in as a penalty killer when needed. And people wonder why the Koivu-defenders get upset. Your post is full of absurd exaggerations. So are some of the others, frankly. "Koivu has been invisible since the break"...This is just not an objective account of what's going on in the games. It's true that Koivu hasn't been at his best for a while, and I agree he's had one totally invisible game but he is still one of the best guys out there on the vast majority of nights. He is third in scoring on the team since the break, and Higgins is first. Somehow I think Higgins has not achieved what he has with an "invisible" linemate plus Ryder.

Wow! I thought I new what I was talking about but you took it to another level Plouf. That post is hard to contest. I'm sure that the other posters will give it a try anyway...

Muller93 · Guru

And-o and AB just lack all credibility. I and others on this board seem to be able to separate themselves from personal bias. Wonder why And-o and AB cannot? Anyone else wonder?

I stated that Ribby has played his better games these past 3-4. I also stated that Koivu has not( even though Koivu's "off" games are way better than Ribby's "on" games...just on defensive skills alone).

And-O and AB...I have lost all hope. Lost individuals when it comes to critical/objective analysis of this situation. Too funny.

P.S again Plouf, you did an excellent job of applying "logic" to debate And-O. Despite And-o's spock avatar...the logic is missing from his points.

Ando · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

...I and others on this board seem to be able to separate themselves from personal bias. Wonder why And-o and AB cannot?

Mulsy...personal bias just doesn't apply here. This guy gets a near total 'free-pass' on this board that is just absolutely astounding.

I ask...is this acceptable production for any number one centreman???

24 games (so far this in '06)...6G & 9A for 15 points...a -3 rating...hasn't scored since January (with a 2 week break in the middle of course).

Cripes Mulsy...the guy's production is getting worse!

What's the good news??? Is it that he is locked up for 3 more years?

And-o hopes Gainey pulls a proverbial rabbit outta his hat...cause this guy just won't get the Habs to the next level...NO WAY...NO HOW!!!

...sorry if that really bugs you folks!

Key Lime · Guru

Ando wrote:

Muller93 wrote: ...I and others on this board seem to be able to separate themselves from personal bias. Wonder why And-o and AB cannot? Mulsy...personal bias just doesn't apply here. This guy gets a near total 'free-pass' on this board that is just absolutely astounding. I ask...is this acceptable production for any number one centreman??? 24 games (so far this in '06)...6G & 9A for 15 points...a -3 rating...hasn't scored since January (with a 2 week break in the middle of course). Cripes Mulsy...the guy's production is getting worse! What's the good news??? Is it that he is locked up for 3 more years? And-o hopes Gainey pulls a proverbial rabbit outta his hat...cause this guy just won't get the Habs to the next level...NO WAY...NO HOW!!! ...sorry if that really bugs you folks!

So you're saying you know Gainey and his intentions for Saku in the next 3 years? How do you know that saku won't be a #2 center next year? How do you know if Saku will be used more and more as a role player rather than a #1 center. He wanted to lock up Saks for 3 years because he thinks that he can HELP take the Habs to that other level.

Muller93 · Guru

Key Lime wrote:

How do you know if Saku will be used more and more as a role player rather than a #1 center. He wanted to lock up Saks for 3 years because he thinks that he can HELP take the Habs to that other level.

Bingo! Koivu rocks. He was signed up as a part of a vison for the habs over the next 1-2 years. It's all part of a plan. Koivu is a role player like a Muller. Now,we can get a scoring center either now or next year whatever...this ain't no stanley cup team this year and Gainey knows it.

AND Muller was a number one center/or number two center depending on the circumstances of the game...same will be for Koivu.

Fact is AND-O, you lack an ability/logic to figure out how to "build" a "team". Koivu is one of those key ingredients that is hard to find...thus lock him up as part of a "plan"...Gainey is a master planner.

You keep banging on him for production but are to numb to see that Koivu ain't a point production guy per se...Gainey knows that. I know that. Every other hockey knowledgable person knows that. Every other team in the NHL knows that...and they ALL would have grabbed him in an instant. Wonder why??? Oh I suppose And-O and AB have it all figured out

Thank God And-O and AB are not running this ship or we would have the 04/05 Rangers on our hands( with Ribeiro as captain...).

-- Edited by Muller93 at 18:39, 2006-03-08

plouf · Guru

Ando wrote:

Muller93 wrote:
...I and others on this board seem to be able to separate themselves from personal bias. Wonder why And-o and AB cannot?

Mulsy...personal bias just doesn't apply here. This guy gets a near total 'free-pass' on this board that is just absolutely astounding.
I ask...is this acceptable production for any number one centreman???
24 games (so far this in '06)...6G & 9A for 15 points...a -3 rating...hasn't scored since January (with a 2 week break in the middle of course).
Cripes Mulsy...the guy's production is getting worse!
What's the good news??? Is it that he is locked up for 3 more years?
And-o hopes Gainey pulls a proverbial rabbit outta his hat...cause this guy just won't get the Habs to the next level...NO WAY...NO HOW!!!
...sorry if that really bugs you folks!

Koivu gets a free pass on this board? All three of the most rabid pro-Koivu posters said some bad things about his play of late.

But then people have to start with the whole "he's not even a top six forward" or "he's invisible" or "he's being carried by x - insert Rivet, Higgins, etc...- " crap. The guy just led the Olympics in scoring then somehow managed to come back and play 5 games in 9 nights and get a point per game plus be the best face-off man and lots of skating and hustle and good defensive play. He's been far from perfect, took two dumb penalties (though one was pure bad luck IMO) and I expect more from him, but there's a point where the criticism is just plain unfair.

Meanwhile Ribeiro gets 7 points in 15 games, playing with Kovalev, meanwhile sitting out the olympics and he is suddenly a better player than Koivu. And what about Plekanec who will, and I paraphrase, "be the number one centre by the end of the year"? Consistency sure is a relative thing.