Moore Lawsuit

Jonny G · Senior Member

Moore Lawsuit

Jonny G · Senior Member

As a lawyer who defends insurance companies in similar actions, a couple of things to note:

1) Liability in the civil suit will not be an issue. His criminal conviction is sufficient proof to satisfy the lower civil standard.
2) The only issue at trial (if it makes it that far) is the amount of damages to which Moore will be entitled.
3) Bertuzzi is insured. However, there is a possibility that his policy does not cover criminal acts. If such is the case, then Bertuzzi will be personally on the hook for the damages. If the policy responds, then Bertuzzi will only be on the hook for damages that exceed the policy's limits.

A couple of interesting notes. As far as general damages are concerned (to be distinguished from specific damages such as loss of earning capacity), the courts do not usually award more than $300K for such injuries. Moore can walk, he has not suffered from disfiguring burns, etc ... Interestingly, in Toronto (this action was commenced in Ontario), juries are quite stingy.

In terms of loss of earning capacity, Moore will have to show that, but for the injuries, it would have been more likely than not that he would have earned $15 million from the time of his injury until the time that he retires. The Court will discount from that amount any amount that Moore is capable of making during that period.

heet_150 · Guru

Very cool to have an expert on this. Does this suit have to be heard in front of a jury, or can it go before judge? I always get a little ticked when someone wins a law suit against a large company and the jury awards them $100 million dollars in damages, instead of a reasonable amount where the company might just pay and move on.

Jonny G · Senior Member

Great question. As long as the action meets a certain threshold, either party can elect to have that action tried by a judge and jury by filing a Jury Notice.

The $100 million jury awards are extremely rare in Canada and are more typical of U.S. cases (the hot McDonald's coffee case comes to mind). In the U.S., under certain circumstances, juries are allowed to award treble damages (i.e. 3 times the amount of damages actually suffered).

I was in front of a judge earlier this week who made a point of telling one of the parties to a jury action that Toronto juries are cheap.

-- Edited by Jonny G at 15:27, 2006-02-15

24 Rings · Guru

I feel bad for Moore on this one. He was almost killed, lost out on his playing career and the money that goes with it. However, to say that this guy was a marginal player might even be overstating the fact. I'm sure he lost MAYBE $1,000,000 - $2,000,000 in wages and I woulds also conceded some punative damages (Jonny??) and loss associated with stress, time in hospital, grief etc., etc., but $15,000,000? That seems absured.

heet_150 · Guru

I find it interesting that the NHL isn't named in the suit.

I wonder what the chances are that this will be settled? I would think that Bertuzzi would be quite anxious to, as he has pretty much conceded that he was the cause for Moore's career ending injury, by pleading guilty in B.C..

Jonny G · Senior Member

24 -- you're probably right. There's probably a punitive damages claim for bad faith, high-handed, and malicious conduct.

This claim should probably settle. The lawsuit will probably take several years to wind through the system. From a fan's perspective, the downside to settlement is that we will never know how much was paid. The terms of settlement are typically protected by a confidentiality clause. Bertuzzi will probably want it to go away quickly so that he can move on with his life and career. The trial, preparation, and pre-trial procedure take a lot of time and energy.

Heat -- I agree that this claim should probably settle. Eventhough Bertuzzi's liability will not be an issue, the trial can proceed based upon the damages issue alone (I have a similar case coming up this summer -- two weeks are set aside to determine the amount of damages to which the Plaintiff is entitled).

One of the things that I find interesting is how the experts will calculate Moore's projected salary under the new NHL. There's no past history upon which an economic pattern can be projected. Also, my theory is that, under the new NHL, below-average players will experience little salary growth because the big bucks are shelled out to the stars (leaving little cap room to spread among lots of marginal players). A subset of that issue will be how the experts forcast league revenues (which directly affects the cap level).

AB Habman · Guru

Jonny G wrote:

24 -- you're probably right. There's probably a punitive damages claim for bad faith, high-handed, and malicious conduct. This claim should probably settle. The lawsuit will probably take several years to wind through the system. From a fan's perspective, the downside to settlement is that we will never know how much was paid. The terms of settlement are typically protected by a confidentiality clause. Bertuzzi will probably want it to go away quickly so that he can move on with his life and career. The trial, preparation, and pre-trial procedure take a lot of time and energy. Heat -- I agree that this claim should probably settle. Eventhough Bertuzzi's liability will not be an issue, the trial can proceed based upon the damages issue alone (I have a similar case coming up this summer -- two weeks are set aside to determine the amount of damages to which the Plaintiff is entitled). One of the things that I find interesting is how the experts will calculate Moore's projected salary under the new NHL. There's no past history upon which an economic pattern can be projected. Also, my theory is that, under the new NHL, below-average players will experience little salary growth because the big bucks are shelled out to the stars (leaving little cap room to spread among lots of marginal players). A subset of that issue will be how the experts forcast league revenues (which directly affects the cap level).

Wow Jonny, this can turn into quite an indepth case with alot of factors that will play in! Great to have your professional opinion on this now and during the case!

patg · Member

Keep in mind while looking at the footage. Steve Moore sustained his injuries will there was a group of people on his back and not only the result of Todd Bertuzzi. Also that when you play professional hockey there is a certain risk of injury, that in Steve Moore's case resulted in his play the previous time they meet. That Steve Moore intentional tried to injury M. Naslund and that hockey has a culture of retributation over the years.

keVin · Member

5 words for moore: get the **** over it.

Jay1982 · Guru

I agree 100% Kevin. From the start I said that Moore was the biggest pussy in the world. Yes the shot from Bertuzzi was bad. But comon now.

-- Edited by Jay1982 at 16:24, 2006-02-17

Jay1982 · Guru

This is something I posted the night it happened on another board I no longer go to:

Alright, well there are lots of thoughts and ideas flying around. I'm a referee for hockey, and I see stupid **** by players everyday. 1st off, Moore's hit on Naslund wasn't illegal, he got a head injury, SO WHAT THAT HAPPENES WHEN YOU PLAY HOCKEY, he was low compared to Moore and paid for it, yes it is sad that Naslund got injured, but once again thats part of the sport. During the rematch Moore fought, he doesn't have to fight everyone on the Canucks bench, but in this case I think Bertuzzi should have dropped his gloves and faced him even if he didn;t want, so that Moore still would have had a chance to protect himself. The punch to the head was cheap no doubt about it. I've seen the replay lke 1000 times. But what do you think broke part of his neck, the punch or the 4 other avalanche players that jumped ontop of Bertuzzi and Moore? He should get suspended for the punch no doubt, but for anything else that is bs. AND what the hell was the coach thinking sending Moore on the ice with so little time left and such a big score. People wanted to fight all night long, he should have used his brain and kept Moore on the bench. Furthermore I don't see how someone can compare this to what McSorely did. McSorely is an idiot, he used a stick, not his fists, for sure both shots were pre-meditated, but McSorely went to injure Brashear, Bertuzzi did it out of frustration and I'm positive he never wanted to hospitalize Moore.
Anyways, if I were to decide I would do 1 of 2 things. Either suspend Bertuzzi for the remainder of the regular season and atleast the 1st round of the playoffs OR suspend him until Moore is able to return to play.
Thats my .02

heet_150 · Guru

Apparently Moore's legal team is going to try to prove that all of the damage happened when Bertuzzi punched him. This tactic will apparently place all of the blame on Bertuzzi and not the other players that piled on.

barry33 · Guru

heet_150 wrote:

Apparently Moore's legal team is going to try to prove that all of the damage happened when Bertuzzi punched him. This tactic will apparently place all of the blame on Bertuzzi and not the other players that piled on.

Only in America! No offense Johnny, but as a Canadien, I am sooooo thankful we are not sure-happy up here. In the States, as soon as something bad happens to a person, trhe first call is to a lawyer "Hmmmm..I wonder what I can get out of this?". Why would his parents be entitled to 2 million? Or ANYthing for that matter. This guy was a marginal NHL player at best who, by all accounts, was probably going to end up in Hershey this year. Was the incident bad and ufortunate? Absolutely. Does he deserve some sort of help or compensation? Probably. But what the bigger picture is here is the mentality of people who want to sue. If there is a plane crash and your son dies in the crash..will 5 million from United Airlines Insurance agent bring him back or ease your suffering? Give me a freaking break people. The US has GOT to get control over some of these ambulance chasing lawyers and the people who call them.

gfeaver · Veteran Member

I am sick of this Lawyer Tim Danson. He has never met a camera or microphone that he didn't like.

plouf · Guru

barry33 wrote:

heet_150 wrote:
Apparently Moore's legal team is going to try to prove that all of the damage happened when Bertuzzi punched him. This tactic will apparently place all of the blame on Bertuzzi and not the other players that piled on.
Only in America! No offense Johnny, but as a Canadien, I am sooooo thankful we are not sure-happy up here. In the States, as soon as something bad happens to a person, trhe first call is to a lawyer "Hmmmm..I wonder what I can get out of this?". Why would his parents be entitled to 2 million? Or ANYthing for that matter. This guy was a marginal NHL player at best who, by all accounts, was probably going to end up in Hershey this year. Was the incident bad and ufortunate? Absolutely. Does he deserve some sort of help or compensation? Probably. But what the bigger picture is here is the mentality of people who want to sue. If there is a plane crash and your son dies in the crash..will 5 million from United Airlines Insurance agent bring him back or ease your suffering? Give me a freaking break people. The US has GOT to get control over some of these ambulance chasing lawyers and the people who call them.

Amen. You can't put a money value on most of this stuff.

davidb · Guru

This was a long time coming Moore deserves something

Jay1982 · Guru

no, he doesn't

davidb · Guru

Its called assault and battery. For a guilty finding you would need "beyond a reasonable doubt" Now for a civil case all you need is a preponderance of the evidence. That is why he will get puitive damages . He deserves it, you may not agree with me but that is the opinion from a law enforcement point of view

barry33 · Guru

davidb wrote:

Its called assault and battery. For a guilty finding you would need "beyond a reasonable doubt" Now for a civil case all you need is a preponderance of the evidence. That is why he will get puitive damages . He deserves it, you may not agree with me but that is the opinion from a law enforcement point of view

But David as a peace officer..are you not totally sick and tired of the litigation mentality that is so prevelant in the USA? People have the view "oh well it is not costing the company anything, it is their INSURANCE company that pays". Duhhhhhhhhhhhh...yes let's go with that and then whine and complain when the price of insurance goes up, or airfare, or whatever it i syou decide to sue over. Has anyone ever asked why there is no "Judge Judy" show in Canada? Because they would have a hard time finding enough cases to do a show. When something bad happens to you here, yoru first thought is getting better, getting to the hospital, whatever..not looking in the Yellow Pages under Ambulance chasers.

I recall the Swiss Air crash in Peggy's cove. I heard stories of relatives not even having confirmed their loved ones as deceased and they were calling a lawyer. Did the 4 .2 million that Swiss Air paid to some individuals bring the loved ones back? Maybe spending your winters in Jamaica would ease the pain? I just do not get it. Steve Moore is capable oif working at a real job. He is not parylized. He was a borderline NHL'er at best and yes I was one of the MOST vocal people regarding what Bert did to him. But Stevey really..you were earning like 400,000 a year and in jeopardy of being sent to Hershey of the AHL before this happened. Pay the guy a years salary to get himself settled, tell his money grabbing parents to take a hike, and move on with your life Steve.

davidb · Guru

barry Do not get me wrong, we live in a litigous society and I am sick and tired of it. A teacher looks the wrong way at a kid in school and the parents go to sourt. I am sick and tired of it and it is getting worse. We are losing doctors left and right in Massachusettes because of the rising cost of malpractice insurence. I am not sure how it is in canada, but down here there are tv commercials for attornies that advertise for certain medical issues. It has gotten to the point where even in my profession I have got to be very very careful averyone wants money.

rwp2le · Guru

I would think the more fiiting lawsuit would be against Bettman. 10 years ago this would have never happened. There is no way a guy would have taken a cheap shot at the leagues leading scorer at center ice and gotten away with it. But thanks to the instigator rule this situation got out of control. I don't think what Bertuzzi did was that bad. I really do believe it was the pile of players jumping on him that hurt the kid. But as I said before, if he hit Gretz or Stevie Y like this 10 years ago, McSorly or Probert would have beet the hell out of him, and it would be over. So why blame a player protecting his team mate when this is how the game has always been played. Blame Bettman. Bertuzzi for prime minister.

Jay1982 · Guru

If Moore is entitled to something, than so is every other player in the history of sport who couldn't play anymore because of something that someone did to them in a game. Moore is a baby, and I have no respect for him.

Nil d · Guru

gfeaver wrote:

I am sick of this Lawyer Tim Danson. He has never met a camera or microphone that he didn't like.

I liked him in "Cheers", though.......................oh yeah, that was Ted, not Tim!

Nil d · Guru

davidb wrote:

barry Do not get me wrong, we live in a litigous society and I am sick and tired of it. A teacher looks the wrong way at a kid in school and the parents go to sourt. I am sick and tired of it and it is getting worse. We are losing doctors left and right in Massachusettes because of the rising cost of malpractice insurence. I am not sure how it is in canada, but down here there are tv commercials for attornies that advertise for certain medical issues. It has gotten to the point where even in my profession I have got to be very very careful averyone wants money.

We have the same ads, but they're on the US TV feeds!

This is a true story: My father- & mother-in-law (both nearing 80) were driving a motor home at a shopping mall in Connecticut a few years ago. The "max. headroom" was tight as they were driving into an underground parking spot, and a nearby gentleman who saw this, without being asked, climbed on top of the motorhome to lift the bar so they could enter without difficulty. This man slipped and fell off the motorhome and was knocked out cold. He was brought to a hospital, and my concerned in-laws went to see him. He was fine, they exchanged names and addresses, and they had a good laugh over it all.

A few weeks later, my mother-in-law gets a letter fom a lawyer (her husband had died sudenly of a heart attack in the interim) suing her & her husband for pain and suffering. My wife's sister had to fly her poor mother to Connecticut to make a court appearance, and in the end her motorhome insurance ended up paying out $100,000 US for the ordeal. My poor mother-in-law never understood what it was all about, and had to deal with this while grieving over her recently-deceased husband.

And all because this man was being advised by some ambulance-chasing lawyer. The whole thing sickens me to this day.