Question for Koivu haters

JohnM · Guru

Question for Koivu haters

wright · Veteran Member

JohnM wrote:

110% on a french channel was blasting Saku yesterday for the contract he signed. They were saying he has averaged 43 points per year for his career and did not mention that this includes his cancer year and other year where he missed most of it due to injury. Guys on this show include Michel Bergeron, Rejean Tremblay and Jean Perron. These guys are hard core seperatists who like to blast anyone who isn't french. The other point mentioned was that prior to the game on Saturday against Atlanta, they announced the players who would be participating in the Olympics and when Saku's name was mentioned, there were some boos in the stands. These kinds of incidents anger me as a Habs fans. Therefore my question to the Saku haters is two fold: 1) What makes you hate Saku? 2) Why would you boo a player like Saku? These questions are mostly directed at And-o, AB and Saku11. Any others who would like to comment, please be my guest because I just can't understand this mentality as a Habs fan.

Can't speak for those who dislike Koviu because I do appreciate his contributions to the team. As for the french commentators, consider the source. Perron, Bergeron and Tremblay have continually shown their bias for years. They give a free ride to the likes of Riberio (whom Bergeron stated was as talented as Gretzky at the junior level as ludicrious as that statement is) Theodore. Even Jacques Demers has stated that the Canadiens problems this year are mainly due to Souray,Koviu and Markov.

Those commentators try to be the Don Cherry of the french media and try to deliberately stir controversy with inflammatory remarks, even if theur comments do not hold up to any scrutiny. They don't like the fact that Koviu did not learn french, and that as a "foreigner" he does not deserve to be captain. Only francophone players need apply for that title.

jeanthehabtiste · Senior Member

I'm so glad we have Saks with our team still. Merci, Saku, Merci.

AB Habman · Guru

JohnM wrote:

110% on a french channel was blasting Saku yesterday for the contract he signed. They were saying he has averaged 43 points per year for his career and did not mention that this includes his cancer year and other year where he missed most of it due to injury. Guys on this show include Michel Bergeron, Rejean Tremblay and Jean Perron. These guys are hard core seperatists who like to blast anyone who isn't french. The other point mentioned was that prior to the game on Saturday against Atlanta, they announced the players who would be participating in the Olympics and when Saku's name was mentioned, there were some boos in the stands. These kinds of incidents anger me as a Habs fans. Therefore my question to the Saku haters is two fold: 1) What makes you hate Saku? 2) Why would you boo a player like Saku? These questions are mostly directed at And-o, AB and Saku11. Any others who would like to comment, please be my guest because I just can't understand this mentality as a Habs fan.

Sure you can turn this into a racial debate but you still have to respect that the three have a better hockey resume than yourself! They have all coached and lived hockey most of their lives! They also know Saks personally!

They like many are basing it on production and that has to be a big factor in a Cap system!

The boos in the stand are merely the fans way of voicing their opinion that the signing is too much! It doesn't mean they hate Saks but I can't speak for them!

John, it shouldn't anger you that there're pros and cons on this contract! That's what makes the sport great! We as fans can evaluate now and over the long haul! A sports forum always needs a bases for discussion!

Muller and yourself feel that Saks should be paid on sentiment and that production while playing the game is a lesser importance! I respect that if you can respect that there's two sides to every coin no matter how shiny that coin is to you!

Let us not magnify this into a big political and racial debate! Is it possible this is just about another millionare NHL'er taking care of himself and it's for us to discuss if it's just or unjust in comparison to other millionare players?

Muller93 · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

Is it possible this is just about another millionare NHL'er taking care of himself and it's for us to discuss if it's just or unjust in comparison to other millionare players?

No. I'm confident JohnM has touched on the main problem SOME( not of the Barry variety) fans have with Koivu. Sad, petty, pathetic and worst of all...ignorant.

AB Habman · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

AB Habman wrote: Is it possible this is just about another millionare NHL'er taking care of himself and it's for us to discuss if it's just or unjust in comparison to other millionare players? No. I'm confident JohnM has touched on the main problem SOME( not of the Barry variety) fans have with Koivu. Sad, petty, pathetic and worst of all...ignorant.

Again, maybe magnifying this into a huge racial political debate is just another convenient way to show your subjectivity towards Saks!

Can you not just leave this as a discussion or question on whether the signing was too low or too high without blaming the french on their own opinions?

You guys are bashing them but in doing so, you may come off sounding racist! How will that help your argument?

All the Finnish people will say Saks deserves his contract and if all the french people say he doesn't, in your opinion, that would make the finnish people right!

Hate them or not, there has to be some french people intitled to an opinion! I'm sure some also thought Theo's contract was too high! They're not all biased but some may be subjective but not unlike yourself!

mdmrules · Member

AB Habman wrote:

Again, maybe magnifying this into a huge racial political debate is just another convenient way to show your subjectivity towards Saks! Can you not just leave this as a discussion or question on whether the signing was too low or too high without blaming the french on their own opinions? You guys are bashing them but in doing so, you may come off sounding racist! How will that help your argument? All the Finnish people will say Saks deserves his contract and if all the french people say he doesn't, in your opinion, that would make the finnish people right! Hate them or not, there has to be some french people intitled to an opinion! I'm sure some also thought Theo's contract was too high! They're not all biased but some may be subjective but not unlike yourself!

First of all, calling someone a "racist" because they managed to notice the obvious bias these three guys have towards french players makes you sound like a politician losing a debate and resorting to desperate attacks to take the heat off. Cool the rhetoric George Bush, I'm not buying it.

You cannot possibly deny that these three men have some tendency to go a little easy on french players that maybe don't deserve it. No one said all french people were like this and that all finnish people believed the opposite. You conjured that up yourself and frankly I don't know what it has to do with the question about why Montreal is the only team that that has fans that lose their minds when their captain and best player is signed to a new contract. Jesus it isn't your money what do you care? I would rather have 1 Sak making 4 million a year than 4 lifetime 3rd liners making 1 million a year. Booing the guy is totally ridiculous, why can't you at least admit that. Of coarse french people are entitled to their opinion.. but ignoring and denying obvious bias behavior completly discredits the whole idea of an open and honest forum.

Power · Veteran Member

AB Habman wrote:

Muller93 wrote: AB Habman wrote: Is it possible this is just about another millionare NHL'er taking care of himself and it's for us to discuss if it's just or unjust in comparison to other millionare players? No. I'm confident JohnM has touched on the main problem SOME( not of the Barry variety) fans have with Koivu. Sad, petty, pathetic and worst of all...ignorant. Again, maybe magnifying this into a huge racial political debate is just another convenient way to show your subjectivity towards Saks! Can you not just leave this as a discussion or question on whether the signing was too low or too high without blaming the french on their own opinions? You guys are bashing them but in doing so, you may come off sounding racist! How will that help your argument? All the Finnish people will say Saks deserves his contract and if all the french people say he doesn't, in your opinion, that would make the finnish people right! Hate them or not, there has to be some french people intitled to an opinion! I'm sure some also thought Theo's contract was too high! They're not all biased but some may be subjective but not unlike yourself!

No they don´t say that.

Well we are right all the time

Yes he deserves this contract but not with this mount of $$$$$$$. Like I have said all the time when we have discussioned about this, again I say that it was too much. about 3mil and 3 years and no clauses would have been the max in my opinnion. Yes here are peoples that say that he deserves that contract and those $$$$$$$, but also here are peoples that say Koivu should not even be in NHL.

I think that hockey fans are pretty much same all over the world, let me make an example, when let say Canadian player comes here to play he gets the biggest salary(atleast most off the times) and if he isn´t the best scorer or will be on top of the scoring table. Then he is not a reinforcement to the team and he will be bashed in media and among the fans. Same thing is this case Saku, Who is not francophonic(sp) what means world to media and part of the fans over there, he isn´t the best scorer on team and now he is the most money making player on team. Yes now he is bashed all over media and fans, but these last 2 reasons I understund as hockey fan and as Habs fan, but there is also many reasons that I don´t understund(like this language thing). I know I have to be living there to understund that , but there still is many reasons that I don´t understund why some fans hate him. Do you guys get what I am trying to say here.

barry33 · Guru

I am happy that you guys realize that I do not hate Saks. I just do not treat him any different then I do any other star on that team as far as pointing out his weak points and patting the guy on the back when he does well. Let me address in point form:

1) As for the fans booing Koivu, whether I agree with it or not, they have a right to. But it is NOT a ffrench/english thing..last time I heard it was Patrise Brisebois, not Patrick O'Breezer. No one got booed more unmercifully then Breezer. Theo this year? I even remember Dougy Gilmour and Kirk Muller being booed..and who tried any harder than these guys when they were in a Habs uniform? Having said that, it is probably true that the patience of the fans is longer with the french players. Big deal. It is what it is and that is human nature. I am quite positive that when these guys played in the Swiss League during the lockout that the Swiss Players were cut more slack.

2) The fans pay 200 bucks for a ticket. They can boo whomever they want. If you do not like it then give the 5 mill a year up and come work in an office for 40,000 a year like the rest of us. Hockey is like anything else. There are ups and downs. It is a "what have you done for me lately" thing. My coach in Junior told me that to the fans you are only as good as your last game. That is true, regardless of who you are. There have been games this year where I watched Saks and booed at my tv, because I know he can do better. Sometimes that is the price of consistency. Fans expect more. Should we cut the guys more slack that try every game yet sometimes have a slump? Of course we should. But once you raise the bar as to expectations, fair or not, that is where it has been set.

3)His contract was, plain and simple, way too much. I find it ironic sitting here unbiased (and trust me I am in this case..I like the guy). The 2 points of view you hear. You hear And-O say that he is not worth it etc. etc. Then the people who love the guy look at the contract and say "See how much Saks wanted to stay in Montreal? He signed a 3 year deal with a no trade clause. This PROVES he wants to stay in Montreal!". It is all about perspective and if Dr. Phil was to anylize this (yes I am in touch with my feminine side..I watch Dr. Phil), he woudl say that both sides on this board are blinded by their bias. The "anti-Koivu" side do not place enough emphasis on the intangibles he brings to the team. They feel that he does not have as much power on that team as the lovers feel he does and it is overated". Now the Saku Lovers look at his contract and say how loyal he is by signing it.

Let me add PERSPECTIVE. The long term deal and the no trade clause are for KOIVU's BENEFIT, not out of any sense of loyalty. He is injury prone. Bob Mackenzie claims that the word at the GM meetings was that most teams would offer 2 years and no more because of this. As for the no trade clause, Koivu now does not have to worry about being shipped to hockey hotbeds like Nashville or Florida for 3 years. He gets to renovate his house..whatever he wants to do. Loyalty or good business? Again, depends on perspective.

Whatever your opinion on this guy, I respect him and I think that And-O and Ab respect him. I just try to look at ALL angles from an unbiased point of view and will continue to do so.

I believe that Demers and Bob Mackenzie said it best. Koivu has been captain through 6 coaches. No cup. Coaches keep changing. IMHO he now has 3 years to creat stability in that dressing room and behind the bench. Sooner or later someone has to think "Geesh we have gone through every coach in the league with no change"

-- Edited by barry33 at 08:29, 2006-02-15

Ando · Guru

Saku is too inconsistent. Sure he racks-up the points as good as many…but he runs way too hot and cold most times (see present 1 point in the past 7 games as example).

The fact is that Saku has been the Captain for years now and the exact same problems with so-called “bad chemistry” still plague the team.

Almost always, once Saku gets his game rolling…it seems immediately followed by a serious injury that sets the team back.

Anyway, can anyone recall a time when Habdom was so split over resigning a Captain? (If just 2% of Hab fans objected to resigning a guy like Belleveau, Gainey or Carbo, And-o would be amazed)

My big fear is that Saku comes back from the Olympics and NOTHING changes!

As for why HE WILL GET BOOED…many fans are seriously sick of the now annual digging and scraping for 8th place!!! The ongoing need for one guy (likely a ace type centreman) to pick this team up and carry it back to being an annual contender is not going away! Hab fans…in growing numbers…want results!

Regardless of “loyalties”…regardless of “feel-good” get well stories…regardless of “comebacks”…Hab fans want to win…and Saku’s regime has had 10 years…TEN YEARS – with little or no progress.

…and the excuses just seem to multiply “for Saku”! Blame the coach…no wingers…no other centres…new rules…old rules….new NHL…old NHL…change of ownership…stable ownership…etc…etc…

Basically, And-o thinks that UNLESS GAINEY FINDS A #1…the big fat ground-hog just saw his shadow and so we are ion for 3 more years of this!!!

...you asked

Key Lime · Guru

I think when the Olympics are over, we should all take a week and actually 100%. The panel of 4 or 5 are surely entertaining but if anyone is trying to convince me that they are not biased, save your breath.

I have a question? Carbo, when he was nominated captain, not the highest point getter at all, not the most vocal captain, not the most agressive player, (a star defensively though), not the biggest player...Guys, he was surounded by great teams and goaltending and Pat Burns and Jacques Demers...The only time the french media ragged on him was when the team began to struggle and he made that rude hand gesture on the golf course. THIS IS NOT A RACIST IDEA AT ALL,BUT IF THE HABS "C" WAS BILINGUAL, THINGS WOULD BE SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT TODAY. IT'S JUST A FACT BUT WE ARE TOO AFRAID TO BELIEVE THAT WE LIVE IN A CITY WITH THESE TYPES OF PEOPLE. WAKE UP MONTREALERS. LET'S JUST ADMIT IT. IT'S STILL ALIVE AND WELL IN THIS BEAUTIFUL PROVINCE. I remember the episode when Bergeron was making fun of Ivanans name. It was funny at first, but they were not able to stop laughing about it. Very concerning.

BTW...Maybe we should compare Koivu vs Carbo as players and captains. Would Carbo even be able to play in this new NHL and have the success he had in the past?

P.S.

JohnM · Guru

So the main point of the boo'ing is the fact that Saku is injury prone and not consistent in your view.

Did you know that Saku has played in 5 playoffs with 40 GP 13 G 21 A for 34 points. That's .85 PPG in the playoffs.

As you can see, Saku is a playoff performer. Let's get a team to back him up...

Ando · Guru

No JohnM…the losing/excuses/turmoil/inconsistency/injuries/etc…pretty much sums it up for me!

…I’m not getting back into all this though! You asked…I responded honestly…can we leave it there??? Is that fair???

Seriously though…don’t be all shocked and surprised when the guy draws out the boo-birds next month!

Key Lime · Guru

Don't be surprised? Why don't the boo birds come out more consistently for Theo, for Zednik, for Kovy (on his off nights). This is what I need an intelligent answer for. You know what..maybe I don't need that answer becasue while I'm typing, I realized that these are the same people who STILL boo Lindros when he touches the puck. Just utterly ridiculous.

This is a true story, I was at a Habs game before Christmas, Markov was a little off his game and I yelled "Markov wake up we need you tonight. The person beside me laughed and said that he was "just another Russian with no heart". I did not respond.

Afterwards, Pierre Dagenais was just playing horrible. I yelled out "Dagenais face the truth, this is not for you". The person beside me asked me why I don't put on skates on and try to do better than Dags. Huh? How can anyone defend Dags at that time. I just shook my head.

My point is people are influenced by their political views so much in this city and it's evident.

Muller93 · Guru

You calling those that question the boo birds reasons racist, only confirms my suspicions. Come on now man, you cannot deny that those three clowns on 110% have an agenda for bashing the non french speaking Koivu...that is what's pathetic and racist.

For the record again...among my favorite habs...Carbo, Lafluer, and on this team Bouillion. I simply call it the way it is. AB, perhaps you may want to reflect on YOUR reasons for bashing Koivu??? Barry calls the Koivu thing the way he sees it, but I never get the sick feeling that I get when I read your posts. Hey, I may be wrong, but its the way your posts come off that makes me suspicius...

plouf · Guru

Barry,

I have a couple of spots where I disagree with you:

-the idea that if you pay $200 you can do whatever you like. Well sure, that's true, but it doesn't in any way answer the criticism of people who are booing Saku. Frankly I could give a damn about who paid $200. That's not what being a Montreal fan is about, is it? It's not about business, about the cost of being a fan. Don't bring consumer rights into my religion, man.What matters to me, as a real fan who could never afford a $200 ticket anyway, and so watches the games on TV, is that the Habs get better as a team. I'm as unbiased as you in that sense. And to me, what hurts the Habs more than anything else right now is that our fans come off as the harshest in the NHL, which is distinctly NOT good for winning in the current NHL, let alone business. You bring up Brisebois. Avoiding the French issue for a moment, let's talk about Brisebois for a minute. This is a guy who (surprise surprise) is flourishing elsewhere, just as so many other Habs have done over the past 20 years. This is not meant to be a criticism of the fans so much, because Habs fans ARE the most knowledgeable and know when something isn't right, when someone is playing poorly, etc...and I think it's good to have high expectations, to a point. But the problem is our expectations haven't evolved since the NHL has changed. We expect a dynasty in a league that has 30 teams and a draft (and now cap) system that dramatically levels the playing field as compared with the late 70s. We have won precisely 2 cups since then, which is actually not that bad, since only 4 teams have won more cups than that since 1979. What we needed to do in the late 90s was rebuild with some younger, rawer players, but the fans wouldn't have it, and helped run guys out of town who needed a chance to build their confidence and unify as a team.

-During this "rebuilding" period (which was also a time when drafting was terrible, trades were horrendous, management was a joke in general), we lucked out and got Koivu. To blame him for the 6 coaching changes is crazy. Look at the team surrounding him. A collection of misfits, soft players, totally useless defensemen, etc...The truth is that management and fans were frustrated, and Koivu was the only player who consistently showed up.

-So...people are arguing that giving Koivu this contract is a bad business move. Well it is and it isn't. On a purely cutthroat level, it probably gives the guy a bit too much money given that he has a no-trade clause. But I think the fact that they rewarded Koivu is meaningful in the long-term; it helps build the sense of continuity, of a team, of a desirable place to play. And so I for one am very disappointed that Koivu is getting booed, because it is counterproductive.

And not just because of my "bias" in favour of Koivu, but because I want the team to win.

barry33 · Guru

plouf wrote:

Barry, I have a couple of spots where I disagree with you: -the idea that if you pay $200 you can do whatever you like. Well sure, that's true, but it doesn't in any way answer the criticism of people who are booing Saku. Frankly I could give a damn about who paid $200. That's not what being a Montreal fan is about, is it? It's not about business, about the cost of being a fan. Don't bring consumer rights into my religion, man.What matters to me, as a real fan who could never afford a $200 ticket anyway, and so watches the games on TV, is that the Habs get better as a team. I'm as unbiased as you in that sense. And to me, what hurts the Habs more than anything else right now is that our fans come off as the harshest in the NHL, which is distinctly NOT good for winning in the current NHL, let alone business. You bring up Brisebois. Avoiding the French issue for a moment, let's talk about Brisebois for a minute. This is a guy who (surprise surprise) is flourishing elsewhere, just as so many other Habs have done over the past 20 years. This is not meant to be a criticism of the fans so much, because Habs fans ARE the most knowledgeable and know when something isn't right, when someone is playing poorly, etc...and I think it's good to have high expectations, to a point. But the problem is our expectations haven't evolved since the NHL has changed. We expect a dynasty in a league that has 30 teams and a draft (and now cap) system that dramatically levels the playing field as compared with the late 70s. We have won precisely 2 cups since then, which is actually not that bad, since only 4 teams have won more cups than that since 1979. What we needed to do in the late 90s was rebuild with some younger, rawer players, but the fans wouldn't have it, and helped run guys out of town who needed a chance to build their confidence and unify as a team. -During this "rebuilding" period (which was also a time when drafting was terrible, trades were horrendous, management was a joke in general), we lucked out and got Koivu. To blame him for the 6 coaching changes is crazy. Look at the team surrounding him. A collection of misfits, soft players, totally useless defensemen, etc...The truth is that management and fans were frustrated, and Koivu was the only player who consistently showed up. -So...people are arguing that giving Koivu this contract is a bad business move. Well it is and it isn't. On a purely cutthroat level, it probably gives the guy a bit too much money given that he has a no-trade clause. But I think the fact that they rewarded Koivu is meaningful in the long-term; it helps build the sense of continuity, of a team, of a desirable place to play. And so I for one am very disappointed that Koivu is getting booed, because it is counterproductive. And not just because of my "bias" in favour of Koivu, but because I want the team to win.

Geesh Plouf..Gainey went and signed Kovalev and put him on a line with Koivu..you are calling one of the most talented wingers in the game today (aside from his effort) a "misfit"? Uhmm..I dont think so. The booing goes on in EVERY sport in EVERY city. IS it worse in Montreal with non-francophone players? Probably. But lets not turn Montreal into a city full of biggots and racists because they boo players..Belliveau has been booed there, Brisebois, Lafleur...I am really going to leave that argument to others. And this is a bad business decision. What pisses me off are people tryin tto sell it as "Koivu making a sacrifice to stay in Montreal". PUHHHHHHLEASEEEEEEEEE..3 years..no trade..4.75 million..he does not have to worry about being traded to some sawed off hockey city and has job security for 3 years. Quite the sacrifice. Koivu's agent looked after his client. Bottom line. I for one will not swallow the "Saks gave up opportunities to stay in Montreal".

24 Rings · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

Can you not just leave this as a discussion or question on whether the signing was too low or too high without blaming the french on their own opinions? You guys are bashing them but in doing so, you may come off sounding racist!

Geezus...do people even know what a racist is? French Quebecers or francophones are not a "race". Everyone on here is a little too quick to pull the race card out and insinuate that someone is a racist. Are francophones racist as well because they are biased towards their own? Not just bagging on you alone here either, AB because I have seen this from lots of members. A little too PC boys....take it easy. To accuse someone of that is a pretty serious notion.

News Flash - Francophones are biased towards other Quebecers!!!

heet_150 · Guru

24 Rings wrote:

News Flash - Francophones are biased towards other Quebecers!!!

You mean the same way that Canadians generally root for Team Canada in international competition? What a novel thought.

barry33 · Guru

24 Rings wrote:

AB Habman wrote: Can you not just leave this as a discussion or question on whether the signing was too low or too high without blaming the french on their own opinions? You guys are bashing them but in doing so, you may come off sounding racist! Geezus...do people even know what a racist is? French Quebecers or francophones are not a "race". Everyone on here is a little too quick to pull the race card out and insinuate that someone is a racist. Are francophones racist as well because they are biased towards their own? Not just bagging on you alone here either, AB because I have seen this from lots of members. A little too PC boys....take it easy. To accuse someone of that is a pretty serious notion. News Flash - Francophones are biased towards other Quebecers!!!

Personally I am getting as tired of the argument as I am hearing that every comment I make is because of Julien

Key Lime · Guru

Seriously, all you read lately is I'm tired of this, I'm tired of that. This is called a message board where people have the luxury of expressing their opinions. With all due respect, you are just a click away from reading another topic. If you are tired of reading whatsoever, why not just answers topics that don't aggrevate you? Now I do agree that we milked this Koivu thing quite a bit but it goes to show you that people still have unresolved issues with the situation. If you're ok with the Koivu thing, then move on to something else.

Now don't any of you take this bad, but admit that it makes some sense.

-- Edited by Key Lime at 14:45, 2006-02-15

JohnM · Guru

AB, you put a lot of exclamation points in your posts. Why is that? Is it out of frustration?

AB Habman · Guru

24 Rings wrote:

AB Habman wrote: Can you not just leave this as a discussion or question on whether the signing was too low or too high without blaming the french on their own opinions? You guys are bashing them but in doing so, you may come off sounding racist! Geezus...do people even know what a racist is? French Quebecers or francophones are not a "race". Everyone on here is a little too quick to pull the race card out and insinuate that someone is a racist. Are francophones racist as well because they are biased towards their own? Not just bagging on you alone here either, AB because I have seen this from lots of members. A little too PC boys....take it easy. To accuse someone of that is a pretty serious notion. News Flash - Francophones are biased towards other Quebecers!!!

Thank you 24 rings! That's my point. Why turn this into a big political debate? You're only quoting a short part of what I was trying to say and I didn't call anyone racist! My point is when we have these discussions, someone always comes off as sounding biased, prejudice or whatever the word. It's a no-win conversation that probably doesn't belong in a sports forum!

It seems John is grouping every french fan in one lump and turning this into a loaded question! All I'm saying is why not keep it simple and just ask why the signing is too high?

When Theo signed his contract, I agreed with John that it was too high! It sure wasn't because we hated him, was it John?

Why is this signing so difficult for some to debate without turning it into a big political scandal? Of course I don't hate Saks but I'm sorry if I don't think he's as great as you say!

He is looking out for himself and that's fine. Like I mentioned before, I would of prefered if he would of did what Broduer did and sign for a reasonable figure in hopes other key players are signed down the road to have a greater chance of winning!

I'm also sorry that I don't base it only on sentiment but I lean towards production as a bigger factor!

How do you Pro guys base it on? Do you say on production, he is worth 2.5mil and add the Captain over ten year factor (3.25mil) =5.75mil per. I mean do I have to go back that far to make a judgement? For myself, I'm basing it on this season and the next three years while taking into account the new CBA! Saks was already paid for the last ten years wasn't he?

Key Lime · Guru

JohnM began this topic. His point was that he (him) felt that the boys from 110% are biased and prejudiced. If you watch the show on a nightly basis, you will come up with a similar opinion, unless you live in denial. It is what it is.

JohnM · Guru

So AB, if you were to answer my questions, the answers would be:

1) AB does not hate Saku

2) AB boos Saku because he makes too much money

Jonny G · Senior Member

Those guys on 110% are strongly opinionated. As to the comment about Jacques DeMers not liking Markov, I disagree. Jacques seems to always comment about how Markov is the Habs' top D-Man and about the great plays that Markov's made.

24 Rings · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

You're only quoting a short part of what I was trying to say and I didn't call anyone racist!

I know, AB. I was just quoting the example. If I had a nickle for everytime I was called a racist on here because I said that francophone players are typically skilled but soft...haha.

AB Habman · Guru

JohnM wrote:

So AB, if you were to answer my questions, the answers would be: 1) AB does not hate Saku 2) AB boos Saku because he makes too much money

John, what I'm saying is I didn't appreciate the questions to begin with!

AB Habman · Guru

Key Lime wrote:

JohnM began this topic. His point was that he (him) felt that the boys from 110% are biased and prejudiced. If you watch the show on a nightly basis, you will come up with a similar opinion, unless you live in denial. It is what it is.

OK, I admit I don't watch the program and I live in Ab., where I don't know about this biased and prejudiced thing, so that is why I don't want to comment on that stuff or have it be a part of the discussion! It was just my guess that the three John mentioned had an opinion based on their hockey experience! I shouldn't of guessed that without being informed about the whole issue which I don't want to be a part of!

I just want to merely talk about if the signing was justified or not!

Yes as a fan I've appreciated the french players but I also appreciated big time, players like Muller and LeClair because without them we don't win a Cup in 93'

I'm intitled to an opinion based on being a fan without having to base it on a social issue!

Jonny G · Senior Member

AB Habman wrote:

Yes as a fan I've appreciated the french players but I also appreciated big time, players like Muller and LeClair because without them we don't win a Cup in 93'
I'm intitled to an opinion based on being a fan without having to base it on a social issue!

not to mention the most important -- Patrick Roy.