Where are the Koivu praisers tonight?

AB Habman · Guru

Where are the Koivu praisers tonight?

salted_one · Veteran Member

although i am a koivu supporter i have to agree this wasn't one of his best games (i didn't even see the game though as i was workin) but sometimes **** happens how many players haven't had that kinda game? im not saying koivu is the best player in the NHL or that hes the best player on the team (i like ryder and markov for that...) but koivu is definatly not the worst. and people seems to be treating him as the worst. we are not in the dressing room and we don't talk to him personally so we don't know what he brings to the team on and off the ice except what we see on tv or live maybe we should be putting our negativity on a player who DOES suck most of the time... like streit or bonk or... oh wait we already do... never mind carry on i guess

Gravelbourger · Member

I agree that Koivu and Ryder were out of it tonight but Higgins continues to impress me. He looks like a keeper. He is a competitor with some speed. Finally a draft pick gone good!

Ando · Guru

The 'Church of Saku' has been closed for renovations (it should be a crime scene)!

...though any and all hand-outs would be greatly appreciated I'm sure!!!

Seriously though...if you are sick - sit-out because it hurts the team otherwise! Both Sabre goals resulted from Koivu flubs!!!

...NOBODY could defend his game after that display!!!

Nil d · Guru

Ando wrote:

The 'Church of Saku' has been closed for renovations (it should be a crime scene)! ...though any and all hand-outs would be greatly appreciated I'm sure!!! Seriously though...if you are sick - sit-out because it hurts the team otherwise! Both Sabre goals resulted from Koivu flubs!!! ...NOBODY could defend his game after that display!!!

I didn't see the game, but will accept your unbiased assessment that he had a bad game. He has not been playing well for a week or so now.

As for the season, however, he has had fewer bad games than any other forward.

Amen.

Key Lime · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

To be objective is to evaluate after every game, not just after the few games that he makes a difference! Is it true Saks was playing with a flu? The reason I ask is because our second line seemed a little flat!

FYI Koivu did not practice yesterday because he had a bad cough. He remained in the hotel room. BUT he played last night anyway. WHILE Zednik who also had a cold remained in Montreal. Do some research. Check with your sources....or just read/listen to the news and you would know. No offense anyone. So who's the gamer Koivu or Zed? At least he gave it a shot....and hey, we won right? Last night was a real team effort.

brooklynhabfan · Guru

Ando wrote:

The 'Church of Saku' has been closed for renovations (it should be a crime scene)!
...though any and all hand-outs would be greatly appreciated I'm sure!!!
Seriously though...if you are sick - sit-out because it hurts the team otherwise! Both Sabre goals resulted from Koivu flubs!!!
...NOBODY could defend his game after that display!!!

I don't know what church you're at and-o, but until now Bonk has been sitting in his own pew!

JohnM · Guru

Sorry AB, I had a hockey game after the Habs game last night. Not sure if you've ever played but with the way you critique the game it seems you haven't.

As for Koivu last night, your "unbiased" opinion is quite useless. Let me guess the plays you are bashing about.

The penalty leading to the Sabres first goal. The Habs had 5 penalties in total and Koivu was a major part of killing off 4 of them, maybe it's the fact the Habs couldn't kill the penalty when Koivu was off that makes you feel like bashing is required.

The faceoff with 30 seconds left in the game when Buffalo scored the tying goal. If you look at the whole play, i.e. before and up to the goal. The Habs were killing off time nicely, then the Ribs/Kovy line was put on the ice with about 3 minutes to go. They were doing a great job but decided to stay on the ice a little too long. They then got caught on the ice with the puck in the Habs zone and Huet had no choice but to stop the play by gloving the puck. BG sent three forwards on the ice Koivu, Bonk and Begin to make sure we were covered, Koivu lost the draw, the Sabres defenceman was able to pass to the other Sabre at the line and Bonk was slow getting to him. Long shot goes in. There were alot of Habs on the ice who missed the assignment so why you keep bashing Koivu is beyond comprehension.

You and And-o need to really stop posting garbage on this board. You are not fans of the team, you would rather bash a certain player after a win then get behind the team. Do I need to remind you we have 7 our of a possible 8 points in our last 4 games. Oh yes, when I say we I mean the Habs... Time for the two of you to crawl into the little hole you came from and let real Habs fans enjoy the victory.

GO HABS GO!

Pablo Honey · Veteran Member

JohnM wrote:

They were doing a great job but decided to stay on the ice a little too long. They then got caught on the ice with the puck in the Habs zone and Huet had no choice but to stop the play by gloving the puck.

Good post, except they didn't DECIDE to stay on. The commentators even noted how they didn't have a chance to get off. Ribs does a lot of crappy things, but he's really improved his shift-times. Kovy tried to get off too. It was just unfortunate that the Sabres didn't let that particular shift get off in time.

It's no ones fault. Ribs/Kovy had a long shift, Huet needed to freeze the puck, Koivu lost the face-off. No one is to blame. When a goal occurs, you can't keep passing the blame off to the guy before you.

"Oh, well if the line before me haden't been pinned in their own zone, this wouldn't have happened!"

I played hockey with guys like that and it was annoying. Regardless, we pulled it out anyway. So cheers, guys.

JohnM · Guru

Gotta look at the play again Pablo but I believe there was a chance to get a change when Perez got the puck deep into the zone. RDS mentioned it. But you are right, I don't want to bash anyone, just wanted to show that you shouldn't pinpoint one player on a play like that.

barry33 · Guru

Pablo Honey wrote:

JohnM wrote: They were doing a great job but decided to stay on the ice a little too long. They then got caught on the ice with the puck in the Habs zone and Huet had no choice but to stop the play by gloving the puck. Good post, except they didn't DECIDE to stay on. The commentators even noted how they didn't have a chance to get off. Ribs does a lot of crappy things, but he's really improved his shift-times. Kovy tried to get off too. It was just unfortunate that the Sabres didn't let that particular shift get off in time. It's no ones fault. Ribs/Kovy had a long shift, Huet needed to freeze the puck, Koivu lost the face-off. No one is to blame. When a goal occurs, you can't keep passing the blame off to the guy before you. "Oh, well if the line before me haden't been pinned in their own zone, this wouldn't have happened!" I played hockey with guys like that and it was annoying. Regardless, we pulled it out anyway. So cheers, guys.

Very well put Pablo. I have been the first to jump all over both Kovalev and Ribiero all year but hey, lets give credit where it is due. They both showed up to play last night..in fact I have seen steady imrpovement in Mike Ribiero the last 2 weeks. His work ethic is better, he is very unselfish with the puck..and he seems to be just fitting in better with the team. Kovalev has wicked skills when he wants to use them and he seems to enjoy playing with Ribs for what that is worth. It is easy to sit and pick apart plays. It is a team game and for every goal, you need to look at at least 3 plays before that. As for Koivu, I am legitimately concerened about his play lately and that is not a slap against him whatsoever. Aside from the Leafs game, in the last month or so he has not been himself and it shows in 2 areas. The amount of penalties he is taking (Gainey has been in the media criticisizing him about that) and his plus minus which has gone from a 5 to a one in 2 weeks. For my part, I think he is tired, hurt,. or both. Personally I wish he would take the Olympics off because he will come back from that even more exhausted.

Saku11 · Senior Member

JohnM wrote:

Sorry AB, I had a hockey game after the Habs game last night. Not sure if you've ever played but with the way you critique the game it seems you haven't. As for Koivu last night, your "unbiased" opinion is quite useless. Let me guess the plays you are bashing about. The penalty leading to the Sabres first goal. The Habs had 5 penalties in total and Koivu was a major part of killing off 4 of them, maybe it's the fact the Habs couldn't kill the penalty when Koivu was off that makes you feel like bashing is required. The faceoff with 30 seconds left in the game when Buffalo scored the tying goal. If you look at the whole play, i.e. before and up to the goal. The Habs were killing off time nicely, then the Ribs/Kovy line was put on the ice with about 3 minutes to go. They were doing a great job but decided to stay on the ice a little too long. They then got caught on the ice with the puck in the Habs zone and Huet had no choice but to stop the play by gloving the puck. BG sent three forwards on the ice Koivu, Bonk and Begin to make sure we were covered, Koivu lost the draw, the Sabres defenceman was able to pass to the other Sabre at the line and Bonk was slow getting to him. Long shot goes in. There were alot of Habs on the ice who missed the assignment so why you keep bashing Koivu is beyond comprehension. You and And-o need to really stop posting garbage on this board. You are not fans of the team, you would rather bash a certain player after a win then get behind the team. Do I need to remind you we have 7 our of a possible 8 points in our last 4 games. Oh yes, when I say we I mean the Habs... Time for the two of you to crawl into the little hole you came from and let real Habs fans enjoy the victory. GO HABS GO!

john, no matter who, what, when, how long was on the ice before that, it does not matter, the FACT is Koivu lost the draw that tied the game, and was on the Box for the first goal. If you saw the game, you will see that Koivu only comes put on the PK the last 30 seconds or so. He cant take credit for Killing the Penalties after the grunt work and the majority of the PP has expired. What has really gotten old is you bashing OTHER people for their dislike in Koivu's play.

JohnM · Guru

Ok saku. One more fickle fan.

You need to watch the games a little closer. In the past few games Saks/Higgs have been one PK tandem and Bonk/Begin have been the other. They try to break down the PK into 30 second intervals, thus giving each pair 1 minute on the PK.

-- Edited by JohnM at 10:38, 2006-02-10

Pablo Honey · Veteran Member

Saku11 wrote:

john, no matter who, what, when, how long was on the ice before that, it does not matter, the FACT is Koivu lost the draw that tied the game, and was on the Box for the first goal. If you saw the game, you will see that Koivu only comes put on the PK the last 30 seconds or so. He cant take credit for Killing the Penalties after the grunt work and the majority of the PP has expired. What has really gotten old is you bashing OTHER people for their dislike in Koivu's play.

Koivu has consistently been one of the Habs best penalty killers all season long. He plays with grit, has great hands and a good head for the game.

Was he good last night? Not really. He was outshined by guys like Ribs and Kovy. But for Pete's sake, Koivu has put in more solid performances than any other centre on our team. We need to take off the blinders and look at more than just the last 10 games or so. A few months ago, Koivu WAS our most consistent player and I'd venture a guess that he still is, despite this "rough patch".

JohnM · Guru

barry33 wrote:

I have been the first to jump all over both Kovalev and Ribiero all year but hey, lets give credit where it is due. They both showed up to play last night..in fact I have seen steady imrpovement in Mike Ribiero the last 2 weeks. His work ethic is better, he is very unselfish with the puck..and he seems to be just fitting in better with the team. Kovalev has wicked skills when he wants to use them and he seems to enjoy playing with Ribs for what that is worth.

Ribs and Kovy have picked it up. Great to see. We need all cylinders going if we have a chance at the playoffs.

plouf · Guru

Koivu has had another off week, no doubt (1 pt in 5 games, plus two straight games with big mistakes, vs. 3pts in 4 last wk). Still, I don't see how this proves anything.

If we went by off weeks, we'd have to bash Kovalev for his regular slumps this year, and assassinate Bonk and Ribeiro, since they didn't do anything for months. As it is, Kovalev and Ribeiro are now hot, Bonk has been looking a lot better lately, and more power too 'em. (Although let's not get carried away, because although he looks good lately, Ribeiro hasn't exactly been lighting it up, with 3 assists in his last five games and no goals, and nobody would argue he provides a lot of defense or physical play - he does seem to be meshing with Kovy though)

There's no doubt Koivu's looking a bit worse for wear (apparently he's sick like Zednik?) so I agree that it would be nice if he could somehow get out of the olympics. But nothing to be done.

Let's just be happy that finally our other centres have stepped up to give Koivu a hand (Pleks, Bonk and Ribeiro all looking much better), so it doesn't really hurt us that our best centre is in a bit of a slump. Better than having the whole team in a slump, as before.

We're winning. Let's dig it.

Nil d · Guru

plouf wrote:

Let's just be happy that finally our other centres have stepped up to give Koivu a hand (Pleks, Bonk and Ribeiro all looking much better), so it doesn't really hurt us that our best centre is in a bit of a slump. Better than having the whole team in a slump, as before. We're winning. Let's dig it.

I dig.

I'm glad you brought up the fact that other players are finally stepping up, since Koivu has pretty much carried the team by himself for much of the year. And-o and his heat-packer AB will disagree, but there you have it.

-- Edited by Nil d at 15:04, 2006-02-10

Muller93 · Guru

Ribs and Kovalev are playing well together. I like the idea of dividing the power between two lines.

As for And-O. Snore. You twit. You talk of analysis game by game. I agree. But you are the one that pounces on Koivu at evey chance. If you look at the season, I am sure you would see that Koivu has been the most consistent performer overall.

I stand by the fact that Koivu has had 2-3 BAD games and 7-8 AVERAGE games. Otherwise, he is the habs best forward. Kovalev as had 10-11 BAD games and 10-11 AVERAGE games, along with 10-11 SPECTACULAR games. But consistenly, koivu is the guy everyone relies on.

So go ahead And-o and take pride in jabbing players when they have the flu. By the way, who the heck on the team DO you like?

Saku11 · Senior Member

JohnM wrote:

Ok saku. One more fickle fan. You need to watch the games a little closer. In the past few games Saks/Higgs have been one PK tandem and Bonk/Begin have been the other. They try to break down the PK into 30 second intervals, thus giving each pair 1 minute on the PK.-- Edited by JohnM at 10:38, 2006-02-10

Not True, its been bonk/begin and Pleks and bulis, The top PK team, and Koivu Higgs finish it off last few remaninig seconds .As for the Fickle fan coment, no iam not fickle, i just dont see where you think Koivu has played well and if you would see Gainey's comments after both games you would hear him say that Koivu's penalty in the tuesday game, cost us the game, and last night was ''we need to win faceoffs,specially in our end" Hint hint.

plouf · Guru

Nil d wrote:

plouf wrote: Let's just be happy that finally our other centres have stepped up to give Koivu a hand (Pleks, Bonk and Ribeiro all looking much better), so it doesn't really hurt us that our best centre is in a bit of a slump. Better than having the whole team in a slump, as before. We're winning. Let's dig it. I dig. I'm glad you brought up the fact that other players are finally stepping up, since Koivu has pretty much carried the team by himself for much of the year. And-o and he heat-packer will disagree, but there you have it.

Good on him that he'll disagree, keeps thing active...

What else is he good for? I don't go looking for clear-sighted analysis from And-o; I'm entertained (and irritated) by his mono(megalo)mania. Especially funny to see him open posts with a diatrabe on "objectivity".

Edit:

oops. it was AB who opened the thread. I get them confused sometimes. AB's a known Ribeiro-lover though...

-- Edited by plouf at 11:53, 2006-02-10

-- Edited by plouf at 12:02, 2006-02-10

plouf · Guru

Just to show I'm a good sport:

For all the people who are fed up with Koivu (or never liked him in the first place), there's a pretty well-argued anti-Koivu thing on habsworld.net. It's in French, by Louis Garon.

Ando · Guru

Saku11 wrote:

...no matter who, what, when, how long was on the ice before that, it does not matter, the FACT is Koivu lost the draw that tied the game, and was on the Box for the first goal. If you saw the game, you will see that Koivu only comes put on the PK the last 30 seconds or so. He cant take credit for Killing the Penalties after the grunt work and the majority of the PP has expired. What has really gotten old is you bashing OTHER people for their dislike in Koivu's play.

...is there an echo in here???

Saku11 pretty much says it all here!

JohnM gives new meaning to the word "denial".

JohnM · Guru

Saku11 wrote:

Not True, its been bonk/begin and Pleks and bulis, The top PK team, and Koivu Higgs finish it off last few remaninig seconds.

Don't let facts get in the way of your posts, oh you don't.

PK minutes for last nights game:

Bonk, Begin - 6 minutes 38 seconds combined

Saks, Higgs - 6 minutes 42 seconds combined

Pleks, Bulis - 1 second combined

Thanks for your great insight into the game though. You should be a sports analyst.

JohnM · Guru

Ando wrote:

Saku11 pretty much says it all here! JohnM gives new meaning to the word "denial".

Yeah he says it all with no facts behind his statements kinda like you.

Nil d · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Saku11 wrote: Not True, its been bonk/begin and Pleks and bulis, The top PK team, and Koivu Higgs finish it off last few remaninig seconds. Don't let facts get in the way of your posts, oh you don't. PK minutes for last nights game: Bonk, Begin - 6 minutes 38 seconds combined Saks, Higgs - 6 minutes 42 seconds combined Pleks, Bulis - 1 second combined Thanks for your great insight into the game though. You should be a sports analyst.

Ah, but I'll bet that was a quality second!

Saku11, And-o, and their ilk never let the facts stand in the way of a good argument; I guess we've learned that by now. Still, it's like trying to walk on a moving floor. We keep tripping on their non-sequiturs.........

salted_one · Veteran Member

although i have been on the bashing wagon myself, i try to look at the bright side of things when i can koivu may not have played well last night (again i never seen the game) but why call ANY players down? right now we are doing well at the moment 7 points in 4 games so far we should be somewhat happy. but no instead all we hear about is how much saku sucks and how he almost cost us the game the habs are finaly doing things right again and saku has one or 2 bad games and a few people are all over him he may not be as good as he used to be (personaly i think hes always been like this during regular season then shines in the playoffs) but the fact is hesone of the only ones consistantly giving 100% out there. i would rather have a player that has a few bad games but always gives it all instead of a player that has a few fantastic games but barely lifts a finger on other games. the next game comin up is Atlanta instead of b*tchin about a lost faceoff lets look ahead to yet another very important game.

Key Lime · Guru

What part of sick don't you undertsand? Koivu and Zed were sick last night. They confirmed it via most media channels before the game. He played and price Zednik was unable. Koivu had stomach cancer, he came back from it. Zed got a concussion against Boston, not is not the same player since. Plain and simple...he little guy has character.

What makes me laugh is that if you know as a fact that Koivu was sick, the simple fact that he played kicks butt. Have any of you played a competitive ice hockey game while you had a simple cold. It's extremely difficult. At times unbearable. So get over it dude. Koivu deserves to be praised and yes, we are Koivu praisers. JUST LIKE WE ARE BEGIN, HIGGINS, MARKOV, BOULLION "PRAISERS".

The Habs have finally gained confidence and are playing with passion and grit...I suggest you change your name...you're not a "Habman", you just like to stir the pot. Keep going, you're increasing your credibility.

normie · Member

Sittin right here...................BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

barry33 · Guru

Key Lime wrote:

What part of sick don't you undertsand? Koivu and Zed were sick last night. They confirmed it via most media channels before the game. He played and price Zednik was unable. Koivu had stomach cancer, he came back from it. Zed got a concussion against Boston, not is not the same player since. Plain and simple...he little guy has character. What makes me laugh is that if you know as a fact that Koivu was sick, the simple fact that he played kicks butt. Have any of you played a competitive ice hockey game while you had a simple cold. It's extremely difficult. At times unbearable. So get over it dude. Koivu deserves to be praised and yes, we are Koivu praisers. JUST LIKE WE ARE BEGIN, HIGGINS, MARKOV, BOULLION "PRAISERS". The Habs have finally gained confidence and are playing with passion and grit...I suggest you change your name...you're not a "Habman", you just like to stir the pot. Keep going, you're increasing your credibility.

Actually my view ob being sick or hurt is this, REGARDLESS of who you are. If you are sick or not 100 % you are NOT doing the team any favors by playing. Stay home and do not try to be a hero. You do not do your team any favors by going out there at half speed IMHO.

Muller93 · Guru

barry33 wrote:

Actually my view ob being sick or hurt is this, REGARDLESS of who you are. If you are sick or not 100 % you are NOT doing the team any favors by playing. Stay home and do not try to be a hero. You do not do your team any favors by going out there at half speed IMHO.

Barry33. Some of the greatest players in the game play when they are sick. If you are a valuable player, your are usually better at 50% than your likely replacement. Geesh, and you coach Bantom hockey?