What did you guys....

AB Habman · Guru

What did you guys....

Figaro · Guru

The pass was brilliant but so was the shot by Higgins. To actually grab that pass and make the shot was insane. These 2 should play with Ryder or Bulis and maybe Kovalev now and then. I think Gainey needs to build around these guys.

barry33 · Guru

Figaro wrote:

The pass was brilliant but so was the shot by Higgins. To actually grab that pass and make the shot was insane. These 2 should play with Ryder or Bulis and maybe Kovalev now and then. I think Gainey needs to build around these guys.

I am just now beginning to see the upside to Higgins out there, both offensively and defensively. Does anyone else ever catch themselves thinking it is Guy Carbonneau out there wearing number 21 at times?

Saku11 · Senior Member

your right. it was a perfect what they like to call "feather floater" pass, it died exactly on higgins tape all he had to do what score. a tough shot to say the least.

Key Lime · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

What did you guys think of the Plecs assist in Higgins goal? Pure magic! No other center on Habs can match his speed, stickhandling and passing! The way he kicked it up to his stick when it looked like the puck glued itself to the ice without losing speed! The way he passed it through one defenders leg and over the backcheckers stick to have it land perfectly on Higgins stick! He did it all at such a high speed! He is presently our most talented center! Compare that to Saks partial breakaway in the second period. How many were thinking he wouldn't make it to the net? Sure enough he was caught from behind and when he finally shot the puck it went off the defender's stick! Just couldn't pull away with speed to do anything with that chance! A few years back Saks could of at least got a shot on net but he has lost a step! That's to be expected! The little guy has had a tough career and he's on the decline! We're all looking for someone who can do the job on first line when he may be right there with us. Yes, mark my word! If Gainey hasn't filled that position from the outside by next season, you will see Plecs at the helm! Remember this post!

With all due respect...what does the Plecs super pass have to do with Saks "so-called" decline?

Saku11 · Senior Member

Easy, Koivu doesnt have the legs he once had. Could saks have made that play. Sure. But could've Pleks made the play Koivu didnt make??(partial breakaway) Your damn right he could.

-- Edited by Saku11 at 15:07, 2006-02-08

AB Habman · Guru

With Plecs becoming more dominant and with his continuing improvement by next season he will our #1 if Gainey doesn't fill that position from the outside!

JohnM · Guru

That's alot to ask from Pleks. Didn't he lose the faceoff that cost us the second goal and not cover his man for the tip?

Let's not cast Pleks into a place where he shouldn't be just to bash him next year like you do to Saku.

Key Lime · Guru

JohnM wrote:

That's alot to ask from Pleks. Didn't he lose the faceoff that cost us the second goal and not cover his man for the tip? Let's not cast Pleks into a place where he shouldn't be just to bash him next year like you do to Saku.

Thank you John. My sentiments exactly.

Yesterday I posted my thoughts on Pleks potential to be very good second line center for the Habs for years to come. Today he's a #1 center? AND Koivu is on his decline? Whatever!

JohnM · Guru

What's funny is the Habs as a team take dumb penalties and because they happened to score on this one, it was a chance for the likes of AB to start the bashing process of Saks. Get over it already. We got the point, we competed and that's what we've been asking for all year.

Saku11 · Senior Member

JohnM wrote:

That's alot to ask from Pleks. Didn't he lose the faceoff that cost us the second goal and not cover his man for the tip? Let's not cast Pleks into a place where he shouldn't be just to bash him next year like you do to Saku.

your right John. He did lose the face off and a did not cover his man. But didnt koivu also have a brain cramp a mistake his stick for someone else's stick?? causing us to lose the PP and possibly the downfall of the game? Its two sides to a coin

JohnM · Guru

Saku11 wrote:

your right John. He did lose the face off and a did not cover his man. But didnt koivu also have a brain cramp a mistake his stick for someone else's stick?? causing us to lose the PP and possibly the downfall of the game? Its two sides to a coin

This post was re: Pleks as first line center and I don't think we should cast him into a position he isn't ready for just to bash him next year.

Sak took a bad penalty but that didn't cost us the game. The second of the two penalties cost us the game.

AB Habman · Guru

Saku11 wrote:

JohnM wrote: That's alot to ask from Pleks. Didn't he lose the faceoff that cost us the second goal and not cover his man for the tip? Let's not cast Pleks into a place where he shouldn't be just to bash him next year like you do to Saku. your right John. He did lose the face off and a did not cover his man. But didnt koivu also have a brain cramp a mistake his stick for someone else's stick?? causing us to lose the PP and possibly the downfall of the game? Its two sides to a coin

Good point! Also John, this point wasn't to bash Saks but to be logical about the future picture! Fact is Saks is on the decline and his play has proven it this season!

Sure, Plecs losses some faceoffs but remember he's only a first year player! He will improve! How many faceoffs did Saks win this season? Pretty average to say the least!

I would rather have an elete bigger centermen come into the picture next season but we all know that probably won't happen so at least we have Plecs that can step in! He already has better speed, passing and consistency than Saks, the faceoffs will improve while he continues to improve overall!

The future looks bright with this guy in the line-up!

John, this has nothing to do with the opportunity to bash Saks as I have passed many of them by this season while you and others held him too high after one good game! Again this is about facts, Plecs is improving every game, while Saks is on the decline! It's not rocket science to state that Plecs will pass him soon on the depth chart!

I just don't see why you dislike Plecs and don't expect him to succeed Saks with this current roster?

-- Edited by AB Habman at 16:44, 2006-02-08

JohnM · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

Good point! Also John, this point wasn't to bash Saks but to be logical about the future picture! Fact is Saks is on the decline and his play has proven it this season! Sure, Plecs losses some faceoffs but remember he's only a first year player! He will improve! How many faceoffs did Saks win this season? Pretty average to say the least! I would rather have an elete bigger centermen come into the picture next season but we all know that probably won't happen so at least we have Plecs that can step in! He already has better speed, passing and consistency than Saks, the faceoffs will improve while he continues to improve overall! The future looks bright with this guy in the line-up!

Weren't you the same one last year who was asking for Ribs to be our first line center??? Yes, you were. Please refrain from making judgements on Habs players because it seems to spiral them into la-la land. Pleks will be a great 3rd line center able to fill in on the 2nd line when needed.

AB Habman · Guru

JohnM wrote:

AB Habman wrote: Good point! Also John, this point wasn't to bash Saks but to be logical about the future picture! Fact is Saks is on the decline and his play has proven it this season! Sure, Plecs losses some faceoffs but remember he's only a first year player! He will improve! How many faceoffs did Saks win this season? Pretty average to say the least! I would rather have an elete bigger centermen come into the picture next season but we all know that probably won't happen so at least we have Plecs that can step in! He already has better speed, passing and consistency than Saks, the faceoffs will improve while he continues to improve overall! The future looks bright with this guy in the line-up! Weren't you the same one last year who was asking for Ribs to be our first line center??? Yes, you were. Please refrain from making judgements on Habs players because it seems to spiral them into la-la land. Pleks will be a great 3rd line center able to fill in on the 2nd line when needed.

John, where were you? By the end of the last regular season, Ribs was our first line center!

But anyways time will tell who's wrong or right and also by Gainey's actions! Just remember my point though, if this roster is static at center ice by next season, Plecs will be our first line center!

plouf · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

With Plecs becoming more dominant and with his continuing improvement by next season he will our #1 if Gainey doesn't fill that position from the outside!

I recall similar statements you made last year about Ribeiro. Ho hum.

edit:
(oops, I see John has already covered this....)

-- Edited by plouf at 16:52, 2006-02-08

AB Habman · Guru

plouf wrote:

AB Habman wrote: With Plecs becoming more dominant and with his continuing improvement by next season he will our #1 if Gainey doesn't fill that position from the outside! I recall similar statements you made last year about Ribeiro. Ho hum. edit: (oops, I see John has already covered this....) -- Edited by plouf at 16:52, 2006-02-08

I'm not going to lie! When Saks was struggling in the last season and missing games due to injury, there were many discussions like we're having now with Plecs but back then Ribs was playing good! Many including myself said that Ribs should be our first line center and by season's end he was! I think he ended up with about ten more points than Saks! This year as we all know he went south but now finally starting to play better! I still think by the end of season he'll have more points than Saks but that isn't saying much! Don't count me wrong yet! Is he not our first line center now?

I still stand by what I say about the future of Plecs vs Saks! Again time will tell which way Gainey takes this roster!

plouf · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

plouf wrote:
AB Habman wrote: With Plecs becoming more dominant and with his continuing improvement by next season he will our #1 if Gainey doesn't fill that position from the outside! I recall similar statements you made last year about Ribeiro. Ho hum. edit: (oops, I see John has already covered this....) -- Edited by plouf at 16:52, 2006-02-08

I'm not going to lie! When Saks was struggling in the last season and missing games due to injury, there were many discussions like we're having now with Plecs but back then Ribs was playing good! Many including myself said that Ribs should be our first line center and by season's end he was! I think he ended up with about ten more points than Saks! This year as we all know he went south but now finally starting to play better! I still think by the end of season he'll have more points than Saks but that isn't saying much! Don't count me wrong yet! Is he not our first line center now?
I still stand by what I say about the future of Plecs vs Saks! Again time will tell which way Gainey takes this roster!

The debates last season were similar to those this season, yes. What the Saku-defenders said was basically that he offered more of an all-around game than Ribeiro and came up in the clutch, and that Ribeiro was a selfish, cocky, one-dimensional, one-hit wonder.
Now...what happened after that?
-Let's see: Ribeiro makes that famous dive (which I'm sure must have endeared him to his teammates), disappears in the playoffs, and doesn't really show up this season until recently, although going by your way of judging a guy's play (statistics alone), he must still be sucking, because he sure isn't getting many points.

I guess you're right, time does tell.

As for the idea that Plekanec is the future replacement for Koivu, I can't agree more.
To me he has a lot of the same attributes as Koivu (including an injury already, by the way) but is young, has yet to demonstrate he can do it over time, and is still prone to rookie-type mistakes (not that Koivu hasn't made his share this year too, but Pleks still has a lot of trouble with basic defensive coverage and face-offs, not to mention physical play). Anyway, I hope he does become the next Koivu. That would be a good thing, because Koivu's a great player.

-- Edited by plouf at 17:50, 2006-02-08

Muller93 · Guru

plouf wrote:

I'm not going to lie! When Saks was struggling in the last season and missing games due to injury, there were many discussions like we're having now with Plecs but back then Ribs was playing good! Many including myself said that Ribs should be our first line center and by season's end he was! I think he ended up with about ten more points than Saks! This year as we all know he went south but now finally starting to play better! I still think by the end of season he'll have more points than Saks but that isn't saying much! Don't count me wrong yet! Is he not our first line center now? I still stand by what I say about the future of Plecs vs Saks! Again time will tell which way Gainey takes this roster! The debates last season were similar to those this season, yes. What the Saku-defenders said was basically that he offered more of an all-around game than Ribeiro and came up in the clutch, and that Ribeiro was a selfish, cocky, one-dimensional, one-hit wonder. Now...what happened after that? -Let's see: Ribeiro makes that famous dive (which I'm sure must have endeared him to his teammates), disappears in the playoffs, and doesn't really show up this season until recently, although going by your way of judging a guy's play (statistics alone), he must still be sucking, because he sure isn't getting many points. I guess you're right, time does tell. As for the idea that Plekanec is the future replacement for Koivu, I can't agree more. To me he has a lot of the same attributes as Koivu (including an injury already, by the way) but is young, has yet to demonstrate he can do it over time, and is still prone to rookie-type mistakes (not that Koivu hasn't made his share this year too, but Pleks still has a lot of trouble with basic defensive coverage and face-offs, not to mention physical play). Anyway, I hope he does become the next Koivu. That would be a good thing, because Koivu's a great player. -- Edited by plouf at 17:50, 2006-02-08

Plouf. You, Nil'd, JohnM and now key Lime are the voice of reason. It seems you guys understand the big picture very well IMHO. Plek is a great little player and I imagine he will be a hab standout for a long while, especially if he patterns himself after Koivu. Or if you are not a Koivu fan for whatever reason...a 20-25 goal scorer with defensive skills.

And what the heck is the point in talking about a solid up and coming player, only to shed negative light on another player in the same paragraph? It's pretty clear to me who on this board posts from a non biased perspective and who does not.

JohnM · Guru

We get it AB and And-o:

AB is a Ribs lover and now that he sucks, AB is trying to get on the Pleks bandwagon. Don't really trust your hockey sense after you supported Ribs for so long last year. Even Andy bailed on Ribster after the playoff incident. What is he -100 this year?

And-o, haven't heard too much about the Bonk loving recently actually for about 2 months. Seems you can dish it but can't take it.

Ando · Guru

Wooooaaahhhh Johnny...And-o never ducked out on Bonk!

And-o was/is DESPERATE for a bonafide #1 centre! Gainey made the best deal he could, at the time...under those circumstances...and I wouldn't change it even if I could (especially now that Huet has proven that he is not much of a downgrade from Garon - did you ever think that would happen???).

Clearly, Bonk is no #1...And-o certainly wishes he was...isn't gonna happen...And-o was dead stinking wrong. But...know what???...he might just be a Hab longer than Saku...if not, And-o is OK with that, since Bob will swing him for something else.

In any event, Bonk is/was a bust as a top liner...but you make this into a Saku vs. Bonk thing...when, in fact, it ALWAYS has been a "we need a #1 centre" thing for And-o!

...and And-o has NEVER been a big fan of Ribs, although he certainly has a longer career path than Saku has!!!

AB Habman · Guru

Some of these boys need to reread the starting thread! Why is it everytime a point is made about Habs needs at first line center, it turns into a long drawn out debate and Ribs or Bonk's name is thrown in there for convenience to try to justify Saks at first line? Firstly Ribs isn't paid to be that centermen so why bother? Everything he adds is bonus based on his salery! He was there for us in the last season with the most offensive points and is now playing better! As for Bonk, he was brought in for defense but with Saks previous injury status and our great need at first line, one could understand why we could assume he may take those minutes! Can we just leave it at that and get back to the starting topic based on facts!

Fact is Plecs is talented now and continues to improve! With Saks decline, Plecs will be our first line center by next season's start!

That pass and his many great goals this season is a start of many great things!

Again, I would rather see a big elete centermen come in but if that doesn't happen, we at least have Plecs.

With our current centers, how can you not see Plecs with important minutes in the future based on his first year talent and tremendous potential???Come on guys, let's be objective!

JohnM · Guru

The funniest thing is that you would rather see Bonkers or Ribster wear the CH than Koivu. Why is that Andy? You must realize neither of those two chumps will ever win anything. So it can't be hockey related. What did Saku do to Andy to deserve such a hate-on?

What will Andy do if BG signs Saku? Will he commit suicide? Will he become a Leafs fan? Not sure where you are coming from Andy.

I would love if the Habs were better and able to compete with better players but why would you cheer for Habs to get hurt or for the captain of the team to be traded I have no idea.

JohnM · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

Some of these boys need to reread the starting thread! Why is it everytime a point is made about Habs needs at first line center, it turns into a long drawn out debate and Ribs or Bonk's name is thrown in there for convenience to try to justify Saks at first line? Firstly Ribs isn't paid to be that centermen so why bother? Everything he adds is bonus based on his salery! He was there for us in the last season with the most offensive points and is now playing better! As for Bonk, he was brought in for defense but with Saks previous injury status and our great need at first line, one could understand why we could assume he may take those minutes! Can we just leave it at that and get back to the starting topic based on facts! Fact is Plecs is talented now and continues to improve! With Saks decline, Plecs will be our first line center by next season's start! That pass and his many great goals this season is a start of many great things! Again, I would rather see a big elete centermen come in but if that doesn't happen, we at least have Plecs. With our current centers, how can you not see Plecs with important minutes in the future based on his first year talent and tremendous potential???Come on guys, let's be objective!

Trying to be objective AB but it's hard with your back handed bashing of Sak. Yet when it comes to stick up for your posts from last year you can't. That's how it always comes back to your love for Ribs.

Here's some objective numbers for you:

Koivu averages 19:21 minutes a game, averaging .88 pts/game and wins 52.5% of faceoffs.

Pleks averages 13:17 minutes a game, averages .50 pts/game and wins 50.8% of faceoffs.

Saks needs help, a faceoff guy like Perrault would've been nice but with Ribs and Bonk being behind him most of the season it's been a tough run so far. Pleks is a good first year player but as I said above let's not put too much pressure on him just to start bashing him next year.

-- Edited by JohnM at 20:15, 2006-02-08

Saku11 · Senior Member

JohnM wrote:

We get it AB and And-o: AB is a Ribs lover and now that he sucks, AB is trying to get on the Pleks bandwagon. Don't really trust your hockey sense after you supported Ribs for so long last year. Even Andy bailed on Ribster after the playoff incident. What is he -100 this year? And-o, haven't heard too much about the Bonk loving recently actually for about 2 months. Seems you can dish it but can't take it.

yeah john, i bet in 03-04 you along with all of us were Ribeiro supporters, just like Theo's in his Vezina days. I supported Ribs, but you know what, he has not played good this year, things change!

Muller93 · Guru

JohnM wrote:

but why would you cheer for Habs to get hurt or for the captain of the team to be traded I have no idea.

Simply stated JohnM, I mean this is the main issue isn't it? The main reason all the hab fans find And-o and AB so frustrating? Really quite simple, Koivu is the habs best player. You support those guys, not secretly wish for injuries and trades.

And AB. You seem to want to state that your posts are not Koivu bashing. Yet that is how they come off. And most posters here can sense the under tones. If we track your history on this board, I think its pretty clear you dislike Koivu because you loved Ribby. So I also say, let's be objective AB.

trust me. The moment Ribby turns on the jets and plays well. I will be the first to jump on his bandwagon. I am a habs fan.

JohnM · Guru

Saku11 wrote:

yeah john, i bet in 03-04 you along with all of us were Ribeiro supporters, just like Theo's in his Vezina days. I supported Ribs, but you know what, he has not played good this year, things change!

Since you are a newbie you wouldn't know but no I never backed Ribs when he was leading the team in points since I didn't see any drive in him. It was only after the playoff incident that some others caught on to the loafer.

I also never thought Theo should be signed to such a big deal. I wasn't sold on him even after he won the Hart and Vezina. He won one playoff series for us, can't mortgage your team on that.

As for Saks, I don't think we should throw $ at him either. I think a 3yr deal worth around 9-10 million should suffice and will allow us to bring in other quality players. This assumes of course we can can rid of Theo's giant contract or he actually plays like an elite goalie.

Now that you are a regular, try to follow along on who backs who. It really doesn't change that much.

Most posters back Saks, other than And-o, AB and on occasion Barry.

Most posters dislike Ribs other than AB

Most posters dislike Bonk other than And-o

Most posters thought Theo was overated other than Johab and Habgirl. They have changed their opinion as of late.

Let me know if you need more details on what posters think and if any are bandwagon jumpers.

Nil d · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Now that you are a regular, try to follow along on who backs who. It really doesn't change that much. Most posters back Saks, other than And-o, AB and on occasion Barry. Most posters dislike Ribs other than AB Most posters dislike Bonk other than And-o Most posters thought Theo was overated other than Johab and Habgirl. They have changed their opinion as of late. Let me know if you need more details on what posters think and if any are bandwagon jumpers.

Great encapsulation of the gang, John!

thompstar · Veteran Member

some people on this board really make me wonder if they even watched the game....koivu was at the end of a long shift and could barely skate, if it wasn't for the near breakaway and the fact it was a close game he would have dupmed the puck in and changed. because he has a big heart and loads of determination he tried his best to create a scoring chance and should have used a wrist shot instead of a slapshot which took more time and got blocked.

pleks play was awesome and i hope we do build around in the future but future is the key word. we need koivu or another more experienced center in the time being until pleks is ready to take on a bigger role in a few years. there is no point in throwing him into such a high pressure role in a high pressure city where he will most likely fail if it is done so soon!