Stop Blaming The Refs

barry33 · Guru

Stop Blaming The Refs

Desi · Senior Member

You're right about the Koivu penalty, Mr. 33. Stupid, stupid, stupid. When will he -- and the other Habs players -- learn that ANY TIME you take your hands off of your stick, you're asking for trouble. That's what holding and holding the stick penalties stem from. Koivu should know better, does know better, but did it anyway. Maybe it's a case of old habits dying hard, but they better die soon or the Habs' playoff chances will, too.

The Begin penalty, on the other hand, I did not see as a willful one. He was turning and his stick got up, hitting a player that was in his blind spot. Of course, it would've been better if he'd kept his stick in control and not allowed it to get that high, but it wasn't a case of his being over-aggressive towards a Swords player, I don't think, just an accident. With Begin, who goes all out and God bless him for it, these things happen -- and sometimes they happen at the very worst time.

Did the refs miss any calls against the Swords? I think so. They also missed one or two against the Habs. Regardless, we had a power play late in the game and a chance to put it away but didn't. (Or did, depending on your interpretation of the Ryder non-goal.) It was Koivu who negated that opportunity, not the refs.

Les Canadiens sont la

Jay1982 · Guru

Thank you Barry, I gave up on defending the refs all the time because I felt if I continued to do so, that people would just label me a referee lover, which i am. But it would make comments or insights I might have pointless since I was branded a certain name.

Referee's jobs are not to lose hockey games for the Habs. They are there to make sure the game is called fairly. Not everything can be 100% down the line. But even though a referee might dislike another team, they still have to call down the line. infact, if you knew how many referee's were based in montreal, you wouldn't believe it.

Referees do not kick back at the end of a game and say to each other "hey, you see how we screwed over the Habs tonight!" "Yeah, yeah, those brand of morons, they were playing great, but we took the game right out from underneath them" *high fives all around* "now to collect our money from the other team that paid us to screw over the Bleu-Blanc-et Rouge" "I can feel my wallet getting heavier"

Seriously, people have better things to do than to orgainze how to screw over a team. they don't even have time to pay attention to the standing, player stats, etc...

barry33 · Guru

Jay I agree. I think once a ref gets to the NHL he is a professional. Unfortunately at the level I coach at (Bantam AAA), there are cases where it is blatantly obvious that the officials are leaning one way or the other. But they are still learning the game. There are too many checks and balances with NHL officials (ie, supervisors, video tape reviews, etc) to allow them to be biased time and time again.

By the way I need to ask you....what do you think of thos habit of calling the double minor (ie 2 minutes to the red team for tripping, 2 minutes to the white team for diving)? If there is any one thing that needs changed in reffing it is that. If it is a trip then it cant be a dive..and vice versa. It is one or the other. The bad part is that this is filtering down to minor hockey. On Sunday one of my players got called for a dive and the other guy got ahooking call. It just baffles me and it seems to be a cop out for the refs.

24 Rings · Guru

I agree with you guys, they take some stupid, lazy penalties. However, for a team that carried the play for most of the night last night, I don't think that the penalties issued should have been so lop sided, 7 to 3 in favour of Buffalo?

Habtastic · Guru

I am with you guys on this one. As I wrote in my game comments, you can't be a leader on this team if you are going to take penalties that cost us the game. Especially if ya' don't show up to explain it. A lot of the penalties we take are lazy. We are fast enough that we don't need to hook, hold, and trip, but yet we do it anyway. The Habs are playing better, but they are going to exhaust themselves again if they keep up the penalty parade.

Habtastic

Jay1982 · Guru

barry33 wrote:

Jay I agree. I think once a ref gets to the NHL he is a professional. Unfortunately at the level I coach at (Bantam AAA), there are cases where it is blatantly obvious that the officials are leaning one way or the other. But they are still learning the game. There are too many checks and balances with NHL officials (ie, supervisors, video tape reviews, etc) to allow them to be biased time and time again. By the way I need to ask you....what do you think of thos habit of calling the double minor (ie 2 minutes to the red team for tripping, 2 minutes to the white team for diving)? If there is any one thing that needs changed in reffing it is that. If it is a trip then it cant be a dive..and vice versa. It is one or the other. The bad part is that this is filtering down to minor hockey. On Sunday one of my players got called for a dive and the other guy got ahooking call. It just baffles me and it seems to be a cop out for the refs.

To be honest, I over-rule that rule, if I find someone caught for diving, why would I penalize the player who did nothing?? And that is the way i was brought to ref. Mostly new officials don't know game management or they are nervous of what would happen if they would stray a bit from the rule book.

For coincidenatal penalties, I rarely call them unless I have had enough with the pushing and want to send a message. If a guy hits another guy in the face, but retailates immediately, then they both stop. i keep the play roling. However if they both feel the need to start a pushing contest, off they go. However it rarely comes to that. I'll call the 1st hit if it is very blatent or dangerous. Other than that, I firmly believe in letting people play hockey to a certain degree

AB Habman · Guru

barry33 wrote:

OK..enough of sounding totally like Leafs fans. The referees are NOT out to get the Canadiens and they are NOT losing hockey games for us. The p-l-a-y-e-r-s a-r-e! The penatlties they have been taken have, for the most part, been selfish and lazy..and sometimes, just plain stupid. The referees are no longer "managing the game". What I mean by that, is in the past they used to do the "even up calls". Or they would take pity on a team doing poorly and penalize the other team to try and make the game more entertaining. That no longer happens. Lats night I bet there was not one person on this board or on the habs bench complaining when, with 2 minutes left in a tie game, the Sabres got nabbed with high sticking penalty. If the refs were out to get the Habs, surely that call would have been overlooked? Begin needs to be given a lesson as to when he can, or cannot, play on the edge. Stevey, you cannot play on the edge with less than a minute to go in a tie game and one in the box already. First period..fine. But I am sure Begin was thinking "No way are they gonna call another one on us in a tie game and Saks in the box already". Uhmmmm..wrong Steve. If I am Gainey, Begin is sitting Thursday night. A message needs to be sent to this guy as this is not the first time he has cost us a game because of what is nothing more than a selfish penalty. As for Saks penalty, it was not selfish. Just stupid. Brain cramp..whatever. Easy to criticize sitting here. He should know better as a veteran. But split second decisions are made. What does upset me is this. After practice yesterday morning Koivu tells the press that "we need to stop taking selfsih and stupid penalties and we need to be more disciplined". True. He takes a bad penalty that helped lead to the winning goal. Fine. That happens. But after the game Koivu was "not available for interviews" Begin faced the reporters. Faced the music. I give him credit for that. It was not easy I am sure. Koivu disappeared. Is this what we want and expect of our Captain? I see things like this that have nothing to do with his play all year and everything to do with his role as Captain and leader. It is inexcusable that he not be available to the media after a tough loss.

Barry, I agree with what you say except the Begin penalty! The reason I like Begin is because he works hard and is aggressive! Also one of our best penalty killers! I say, don't mess with that! He got an aggressive and hard work penalty while trying to hem the Sabres in on the forecheck during a PK! That's a good thing! It's just too bad his stick accidently clipped someone!