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Post Info TOPIC: Clarification Re: Koivu


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Clarification Re: Koivu
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It appears that my comments on Saku's ice time have been misinterpreted so I feel the need to clarify. My point was not in regards to actual "minutes" he has been getting as opposed to his role and expectations. If you noticed yesterday Saks was on the second power play unit.  Not the first and it appeared, from the outside looking in, that Gainey was trying to take some pressure off of Saks. I believe that if Gainey felt comfortable with Ribiero as a center or even Pleks, that he would cut down Koivu's ice time more. But he does not have that luxury. It is very apparent to me that Koivu is tiring because of the amount of ice time he has had to log over the years. It is also very apparent to me that he would be twice as productive as a second line center who is used in specialty teams situations. In fact, I would not even use him on the PK. We have Begin, Bulis, and yes even Bonk. Why tire Koivu out even more by using him on the PK?


But what bothers me is tha fact that many seem to feel it would be a slap in the face if Koivu got less ice time? Quite the contrary. The guy is 3 times the player when he is rested. Let's start doing what is best for the TEAM without fear of upsetting fans or players.



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We have the same mind on this.  Koivu is a small guy and should not be logging 20 mins a night.  A fresh Koivu, is a fast Koivu and he needs that speed to compete.


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Barry, even the Koivu die-hards like myself agree with you on this I'm pretty sure. I don't really care if Koivu's number one or number two centre, but he needs the position as a whole to provide more solid all-around play so he doesn't take on so much. Plekanec (who is a clone in some ways) looks like a decent player, Ribeiro is playing much better, even Bonk seems a bit energized. But we all know the position is still thin.


As for PK - Koivu happens to be a really good penalty killer. Bonk and Sundstrom have shown themselves to be too passive a lot of the time, which is the problem with the PK as a whole. Until someone else starts to attack the PP like Koivu does (my candidates would be Pleks and Higgins), he will probably remain on one of the PK units with Begin and/or Bulis, etc....


The good thing is that the four lines pretty much rolled. Obviously there was a big lead for some of the game, but that's good news. Montreal lacks all-around all-star forwards, but they have a lot of pretty good ones who can skate, so I've always thought they should try rolling four lines more often.



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plouf wrote:


Barry, even the Koivu die-hards like myself agree with you on this I'm pretty sure. I don't really care if Koivu's number one or number two centre, but he needs the position as a whole to provide more solid all-around play so he doesn't take on so much. Plekanec (who is a clone in some ways) looks like a decent player, Ribeiro is playing much better, even Bonk seems a bit energized. But we all know the position is still thin. As for PK - Koivu happens to be a really good penalty killer. Bonk and Sundstrom have shown themselves to be too passive a lot of the time, which is the problem with the PK as a whole. Until someone else starts to attack the PP like Koivu does (my candidates would be Pleks and Higgins), he will probably remain on one of the PK units with Begin and/or Bulis, etc.... The good thing is that the four lines pretty much rolled. Obviously there was a big lead for some of the game, but that's good news. Montreal lacks all-around all-star forwards, but they have a lot of pretty good ones who can skate, so I've always thought they should try rolling four lines more often.


 


Ya Ploufy- that is the problem that CJ and now Gainey are faced with. He IS a very good penalty killer. And he is good on the PP. I guess it further underlines the need for Gainey to get another center to help him out. I am not sure of Saks' age, but given his size, his illness, and the amount of ice time he has over the years, combined with how he plays most nights has taken it's toll on him. He cannot continue to be effective at that pace.



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I agree with you Barry, This is my point of view


This guy has way too much things to carry on his shoulders. Because everybody expects that he is our best guy if we look at points(because he is our 1st line center), heart and soul who fix every problem in locker room or in rink(because he is our captain) and other expectations that fans and media have. Lets look back in time little bit, he has suffered knee injury, shoulder injury and groin injury. All of these injuries are consequences of his playing style, he is trying to play like he was 6' 3" tall power forward, because he is trying to fulfil everyones expectations. Although he has given everything what he got to team that he deeply loves and cares, he has not been able to fulfil all these expectation(we all know what kind of place Montreal is to play I mean fans and media). I think that these locker room problems that this team has are partly consequences that he is having too much pressure on him because of these expectations. He canīt carry them alone anymore. I know Rivet helps him in the locker room, but the pressure to succeed is getting too high among the fans and media. 2nd line center 15min/game max playing time, only PP or PK not both atleast not all the time, and with these changes he can play 3-4 years on top.


1st solution would be whole new solid 1st line that would take part of the heat what comes to scoring goals(I know this is only a dream)


2nd solution would be solid 1st line center and bonafide goal scorer(winger) like kovalchuk(sp) or something like that.


3rd solution would be just bring in solid 1st line center and make Koivu 2nd line center to work with young rising stars like pleks, perez and so on. He could be somekind of mentor to these young rising stars and to this we add decent 3rd and 4th line and solid goaltending, and there would be cup celebration time in Montreal in 2 or 3 years.



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Power wrote:


I agree with you Barry, This is my point of view This guy has way too much things to carry on his shoulders. Because everybody expects that he is our best guy if we look at points(because he is our 1st line center), heart and soul who fix every problem in locker room or in rink(because he is our captain) and other expectations that fans and media have. Lets look back in time little bit, he has suffered knee injury, shoulder injury and groin injury. All of these injuries are consequences of his playing style, he is trying to play like he was 6' 3" tall power forward, because he is trying to fulfil everyones expectations. Although he has given everything what he got to team that he deeply loves and cares, he has not been able to fulfil all these expectation(we all know what kind of place Montreal is to play I mean fans and media). I think that these locker room problems that this team has are partly consequences that he is having too much pressure on him because of these expectations. He canīt carry them alone anymore. I know Rivet helps him in the locker room, but the pressure to succeed is getting too high among the fans and media. 2nd line center 15min/game max playing time, only PP or PK not both atleast not all the time, and with these changes he can play 3-4 years on top. 1st solution would be whole new solid 1st line that would take part of the heat what comes to scoring goals(I know this is only a dream) 2nd solution would be solid 1st line center and bonafide goal scorer(winger) like kovalchuk(sp) or something like that. 3rd solution would be just bring in solid 1st line center and make Koivu 2nd line center to work with young rising stars like pleks, perez and so on. He could be somekind of mentor to these young rising stars and to this we add decent 3rd and 4th line and solid goaltending, and there would be cup celebration time in Montreal in 2 or 3 years.

Well put Power..time to reward the "Old Man" with less pressure and less ice time so that he can be more productive and prolong his career..in a Habs uniform not elsewhere. If the habs keep using Koivu like they have been he will be in a wheelchair in 2 years.

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As Plouf said, us die-hard Koivu fans agree 100%. But at the moment, if we don't play the heck out of him, we may not make the playoffs.


I figure that's why Gainey split the top line into two pieces. In hopes that the opposition will spend  some time chasing Kovalev rather than Koivu. Kovalev is a dangerous guy to leave unattended, and Koivu will produce 0.75-1.00 points per game no matter who he plays with.


AND if we get luckey, Ribeiro playing with Kovalev may just be the spark to get our darling going.



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Muller93 wrote:

As Plouf said, us die-hard Koivu fans agree 100%. But at the moment, if we don't play the heck out of him, we may not make the playoffs.
I figure that's why Gainey split the top line into two pieces. In hopes that the opposition will spend  some time chasing Kovalev rather than Koivu. Kovalev is a dangerous guy to leave unattended, and Koivu will produce 0.75-1.00 points per game no matter who he plays with.
AND if we get luckey, Ribeiro playing with Kovalev may just be the spark to get our darling going.






I'm sorry, I've gotten lost. Could you all direct me to the gohabs.com board? You know, that place where they replace the plate glass windows every night?

What two wins does for the vibes around here...

-- Edited by plouf at 20:54, 2006-02-06

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