Who's to blame?

nietche · Veteran Member

Who's to blame?

Arthur · Newbie

Man thats so neat the guys and I were talking about that exact subject during tonights no show....and man you hit it on the head .He was the one to sign these no shows like Kovalev and so on and so on and so on.his only way out now is to make one hell of a trade that brings some heart to the team.

nietche · Veteran Member

Well, at least Im not the only one who thinks Bob has stumbled badly.

Anyone think BG has been hard done by? Even if you do .... he's made his own bed hasn't he?

Thrice · Member

I think you're a little to quick to start freaking out on a proven GM. One word comes to my mind..... RELAX. Did you guys honestly predict that Theo would melt down beyond all comprehension this season? Did you honestly think that Kovalev would be sleeping out there like he is now after the fire he showed in the playoffs and the beginning of the season? Did you honestly predict that Koivu would be slacking a little like he has recently? That Ribeiro and Dagenais would turn out to be disappointments?

I can assure you Gainey is taking note of what needs to be done, and i have confidence that he will. Just...forget about this season.....hehehe :(

Arthur · Newbie

From what I watched tonight we sure the hell may as well give up on the season not one player had any intensity tonight but huet. And man was he fun to watch.

nietche · Veteran Member

Did I think Theo would suck ... Koivu slack .... Kovy run hot and cold?

It doesn't matter what I think ... I'm not the GM of the habs. BG is the GM, and is being well paid to put a winner together, and he has made some real missteps.

So far it's Gainey 0 - opponents 10

habgirl · Guru

One word - BRUTAL. I cannot believe this is the team that I back year after year. That was absolutely awful. However, forever a Habs fan I will NEVER jump off the bandwagon. Our time is a-comin', albeit not this year obviously.

Thank St. Lorrette that Normie and I don't have to shell out megabucks for another Vancouver/Montreal game for another couple of years. I don't think this girl could take it.

Let's look to Saturday against the Laffs - something HAS to give.

AB Habman · Guru

nietche wrote:

It's easy to point fingers at players who are underperforming (or just showing their true colours!) .... or who get injured ... but the real blame for this terrible habs season is BOB GAINEY. Bob made the offseason moves ... BG brought in Bonk and Kovalev, BG let Perreault go, BG put all his faith (and GG's $) in Theo, BG traded Garon, BG decided that Ribs and Dags were a second line one-two punch, BG failed to get an add'l Dman, and BG decided to let Claude Julien coach, and then to let him go. And BG brought in Carbo (a checking defensive minded player to coach in the new wide open NHL?) The NHL has changed ... and BG has misjudged what it takes to compete in the new NHL. So ... from where I sit it's really up to Boivin and GG to hold Gainey to account, or to find someone else to pick up the pieces. Anyone see it differently?

Sorry Nietch, I should of read your post before posting my rant....Oilers GM vs Gainey!

I totally agree with you!

Also Savard was on the right track before he stepped aside for Gainey! Savard knows young talent like no other! Kept Sens on top since the start! Only bad luck that they didn't win a cup yet! I wish he was calling the shots still!

-- Edited by AB Habman at 23:19, 2006-01-26

Pablo Honey · Veteran Member

Wait a minute....

You CANNOT critisize BG for keeping guys who looked good in the 03-04 season; a season that saw the Habs not only make the playoffs, but come back to beat Boston. Many of us claimed that we had a good solid team in place and that we needed just one major addition.

No one could have predicted that Theo would be THIS bad. Let's face it... We were a team built upon the assumption that Theo would steal us some games. Not only is he not doing that, but he's actually costing us some games as well. In addition, there has seemingly occured a c omplete meltdown amongst the players themselves. These are variables you cannot predict.

Let us judge Gainey on his response, not the current situation.

AB Habman · Guru

Pablo Honey wrote:

Wait a minute.... You CANNOT critisize BG for keeping guys who looked good in the 03-04 season; a season that saw the Habs not only make the playoffs, but come back to beat Boston. Many of us claimed that we had a good solid team in place and that we needed just one major addition. No one could have predicted that Theo would be THIS bad. Let's face it... We were a team built upon the assumption that Theo would steal us some games. Not only is he not doing that, but he's actually costing us some games as well. In addition, there has seemingly occured a c omplete meltdown amongst the players themselves. These are variables you cannot predict. Let us judge Gainey on his response, not the current situation.

You post a good point about allowing Gainey to respond but on that alone, all he has done is fire a good coach!

Also, after the last season played and in the off season, almost every sports writers chose Habs to miss the playoffs! But Gainey sat idle while other teams were filling holes with free agents! He did sign Kovy which is also looking like a mistake!

Is Gainey imune to criticism by our board members? I think not! Especially after such a dismal performance tonight! In any business you criticize the boss selling the poor product!

plouf · Guru

AB Habman wrote:

Pablo Honey wrote:
Wait a minute.... You CANNOT critisize BG for keeping guys who looked good in the 03-04 season; a season that saw the Habs not only make the playoffs, but come back to beat Boston. Many of us claimed that we had a good solid team in place and that we needed just one major addition. No one could have predicted that Theo would be THIS bad. Let's face it... We were a team built upon the assumption that Theo would steal us some games. Not only is he not doing that, but he's actually costing us some games as well. In addition, there has seemingly occured a c omplete meltdown amongst the players themselves. These are variables you cannot predict. Let us judge Gainey on his response, not the current situation.

You post a good point about allowing Gainey to respond but on that alone, all he has done is fire a good coach!
Also, after the last season played and in the off season, almost every sports writers chose Habs to miss the playoffs! But Gainey sat idle while other teams were filling holes with free agents! He did sign Kovy which is also looking like a mistake!
Is Gainey imune to criticism by our board members? I think not! Especially after such a dismal performance tonight! In any business you criticize the boss selling the poor product!

Don't know where to start....everyone's to blame lately. Well, maybe not Bulis, and you can't blame Markov for not being here. But man....maybe it IS true that Koivu, Kovalev and Zednik are angling for a way out of Montreal. Woeful.

Jay1982 · Guru

habgirl wrote:

. However, forever a Habs fan I will NEVER jump off the bandwagon. Our time is a-comin', albeit not this year obviously.

I dunno, for some reason, I never give up on the Habs. I will never admit its not their year to win the cup until the last game of the season if they don't make the playoffs, or until they are knocked out of um. Its not blind faith, its wanting my hometown team, my "heros" to win. Its pride for the CH on the jerseys that every person who steps into that locker room wears. Its pride to be able to witness them first hand, and to look back on what once was, and what will once again be in the future. Its wanting the Habs to overcome all odd to win the cup. I don't want easy wins. I want in the trench brawls for games at the dying seconds, I want everything that is part of the game. Wins, losses, bad nights, stellar night, ups and downs. It builds character, it builds anxiety. I don't want a boring season, followed by a boring playoff.

Excitement is where its at, and call me whatever you want, ignorante, naive, stupid, wide-eyed, a fan-boy. But you won't see me saying its over till the habs are knocked out.

nietche · Veteran Member

Couple replies to my post seem to say Gainey's not at fault for failing to forsee that Ribs, Dags, Theo would fall flat in 2005/06, that Koivu and Kovy would be injured, etc.

To this I respond ... what do you pay a GM to do? he can't score goals or make saves himself. What he is supposed to do is look at what talent the team has, and PREDICT whether that talent will improve or fall back. And to make the moves necessary to fill holes, and move out dead wood. To say that BG couldn't forsee the habs problems is silly ...it's any GM's job to do exactly that. Good GM's read the signs, understand the chemistry b/w players, and are good at forsee what his team is capable of. And good GM's react before the bottom falls out of the bucket, so they can deal from a position of strength rather than weakness.

BG has simply failed to do what a good GM is expected to do.

Would I fire him today? No, but he does have a big strike against him, and I would let him know -- if if was Boivin or GG --- that unless he starts making a series of good moves, that he is done.

Pablo Honey · Veteran Member

nietche wrote:

Couple replies to my post seem to say Gainey's not at fault for failing to forsee that Ribs, Dags, Theo would fall flat in 2005/06, that Koivu and Kovy would be injured, etc. To this I respond ... what do you pay a GM to do? he can't score goals or make saves himself. What he is supposed to do is look at what talent the team has, and PREDICT whether that talent will improve or fall back.

The odds were that:

a) Theo wouldn't be this bad.

b) Ribs would have a similar season.

c) Koivu and Kovy would be lighting it up.

BG went with the odds. Had he gone against this, we'd have crucified him. Hindsight is 20/20 and it's easy to say now, "oh, BG should have known!"

Well, it's my humble opinion that he made the right moves at that time and was hit with a few anomolies that probably shouldn't have occured. Like I said, let's wait to see how he rebounds.

barry33 · Guru

nietche wrote:

Couple replies to my post seem to say Gainey's not at fault for failing to forsee that Ribs, Dags, Theo would fall flat in 2005/06, that Koivu and Kovy would be injured, etc. To this I respond ... what do you pay a GM to do? he can't score goals or make saves himself. What he is supposed to do is look at what talent the team has, and PREDICT whether that talent will improve or fall back. And to make the moves necessary to fill holes, and move out dead wood. To say that BG couldn't forsee the habs problems is silly ...it's any GM's job to do exactly that. Good GM's read the signs, understand the chemistry b/w players, and are good at forsee what his team is capable of. And good GM's react before the bottom falls out of the bucket, so they can deal from a position of strength rather than weakness. BG has simply failed to do what a good GM is expected to do. Would I fire him today? No, but he does have a big strike against him, and I would let him know -- if if was Boivin or GG --- that unless he starts making a series of good moves, that he is done.

Of course he is at fault! That is HIS job. Just like it was Julien's job to "motivate the players" and he did not. No one had a problem pointing the finger at him, especially Gainey. Bottom line in the NHL is you are paid to do a job and win games and if you do not, you are not doing your job.

nietche · Veteran Member

Nicely put Barry.

BG has faltered .... here's hoping he picks himself (and the habs) up

Gravelbourger · Member

Blame...........that's EASY....look at the highest paid players on this team and voila.... THEO, Koivu, Kovy, ZEdnik, and Souray. These haven't been our best players. Higgins, Begin, Bulis, Boulllion, Ryder, etc. have been our best players. With no slight against these players....they're not elite players and can't hold up a team. Blame our millionaires....it's simple to see!!

davidb · Guru

A couple weeks ago it was Cj who caused the bad play of the team. So lets get rid of him and all we be well. Now we made the move on CJ, got two good games and after they settleed down we suck again. Now its BGs fault. I say it was BGs fault a few weeks ago. Cj should have stayed and Gilette should have stepped in and Dumped BG instead

nietche · Veteran Member

Can't argue with that.

Not sure I would fire BG though .... just sit him down and tell him he's behind in the count (and get him to lay out what he is planning to do to right the ship)