Theodore collapse starts with the Habs themselves

mperra (Admin) · Guru

Theodore collapse starts with the Habs themselves

Pucky · Veteran Member

Is it a personality conflict with team,is it a click thing,do they look across the ice to pass the puck and see someone they don't like ,determines whether they pass or not?

I heard a Ribs "they keep changing who i play with ,makes it hard to play together"something like that.

AB Habman · Guru

mperra (Admin) wrote:

If we learned anything from the Patrick Roy debacle, with the media being what it is, is branding today's Montreal team around one player, is asking for trouble. For those who have watched a game at the Bell Centre, just look at what lengths the Canadiens go to make Theodore the feature player on the ice before the start of the game. When the starting players are announced, the last player announced is Jose Theodore. And there's always a spotlight on him that seems to last forever. I am somewhat disgusted reading his post-game interview following the 6-4 loss to Sid the kid and Co how Theodore went out of his way to say ... they had lots of breakaways and odd-man rushes. Like, why make excuses??? I am concerned about the chemistry on this club. Another incident was on the recent west-coast swing in Edmonton. Game tied late in the third period and Michael Ryder shoots the puck in the stands and gets a delay of game penalty, and a few feet away, Mike Ribeiro lifts his stick in disgust with Ryder. talk about playing for their own.

Good post Mario! Do we need more leadership to unify these guys or do we have too many missing pieces of the puzzle?

Desi · Senior Member

Does it create a leadership vacuum when a team trades away its captains year after year after year? Playing for a team with a history like that of the Habs should be a player's dream come true, but instead, the organization has become just another NHL franchise -- and one that has to pay in Canuck-bucks at that...

Clearly, the Habs shine the spotlight on Theo because he's the only elite player they've had in so many years. Gotta sell tickets, or there won't be any cash to pay any of the boys, right? It is disappointing that Theo can't seem to take the heat about his less-than-stellar play. And along with Ribeiro's griping and whining, it's indicative of a team that's just not in it together.

Maybe we should have Jean Beliveau lace up a pair of skates for a week or two and give him the C. I don't think we'd see all this slacking off and finger-pointing and excuse-making if he were in the locker room. And knowing him, he'd pot a bunch of goals for us, too.

Or maybe the team should bring in Kurt Russel as their 10th assistant coach and have him do his Herb Brooks drill-instructor imitation at a few Hab practices -- "Again! Again! Again! Again!" You hate to treat your players like children, but maybe that's what we're really dealing with here in some cases.

I guess it's good that CJ called this meeting the other night after the game that the Habs handed to the Pens. But it bothers me that he even had to call such a meeting. If the players aren't in it together and they aren't ready to work hard and follow CJ's system, a meeting is just a meeting, isn't it?

Unless it precipitates a fired-up team vs. NJ -- or a big trade of some kind -- it strikes me as the kind of thing that plays well in the media but doesn't necessarily mean diddly on the ice.

Les Canadiens Sont La

Trapper John · Member

AB Habman wrote:

mperra (Admin) wrote: If we learned anything from the Patrick Roy debacle, with the media being what it is, is branding today's Montreal team around one player, is asking for trouble. For those who have watched a game at the Bell Centre, just look at what lengths the Canadiens go to make Theodore the feature player on the ice before the start of the game. When the starting players are announced, the last player announced is Jose Theodore. And there's always a spotlight on him that seems to last forever. I am somewhat disgusted reading his post-game interview following the 6-4 loss to Sid the kid and Co how Theodore went out of his way to say ... they had lots of breakaways and odd-man rushes. Like, why make excuses??? I am concerned about the chemistry on this club. Another incident was on the recent west-coast swing in Edmonton. Game tied late in the third period and Michael Ryder shoots the puck in the stands and gets a delay of game penalty, and a few feet away, Mike Ribeiro lifts his stick in disgust with Ryder. talk about playing for their own. Good post Mario! Do we need more leadership to unify these guys or do we have too many missing pieces of the puzzle?

Excellent question! If, in fact, we have "missing pieces", why were we able to jump off with such an outstanding start this season? (I have vague memories of being one point behind Detroit for about a nanosecond.) The pieces seemed to be intact initially. Seems like all the trouble started when Kovalev when down for knee surgery.

It might be interesting to go back to that point and examine how the line combos were juggled. I'm willing to bet the seeds of the beakdown were sown then.

Which reminds me.... I've wanted to ask.... With an entire season down the tubes, wasn't there an opportunity for Kovalev to have the knee repaired before the action resumed?

I worry about these things.

Johab · Guru

Kovalev had gone through a knee surgery already ( same one ) and they thought he didnt require it again. During the off-year kovalev was taking physio classes that the doctors thought would heal the problem. It wasnt working and so surgery was the last option...its not like he wasnt trying to fix the problem...

barry33 · Guru

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that perhaps the bets thing for THEO is a trade. Not because I do not think he is capable, not because I do not like him, but because I feel that he would thrive someplace where he is not subjected to the Montreal Media and does not have to be the next french God. (Same witH Ribiero).

The comments that Theo made following his performance the other night concerned me. Instead of taking ownership for putting his team in a hole by allowing 3 goals on 6 shots, he decided to defelect the criticism to his teamates for allowing too many odd man rushes etc. His teamates and coach have defended him all year when the media or fans have been on his back. His coach let him stay in Tuesday night when most other coaches would have yanked him (good thing that Mike Keenan is not his coach..Dr. Hook would have had him out after the first goal).

Who would we get to play goal? I have no idea. But my gut feeling is that it is time to give Theo a fresh start elsewhere to see if he can turn things around.

mperra (Admin) · Guru

Desi wrote:

.... Gotta sell tickets, or there won't be any cash to pay any of the boys, right? It is disappointing that Theo can't seem to take the heat about his less-than-stellar play. ...

Yes i agree they have to sell tickets, but now that the entire seadson is SOLD OUT, the're no need to shine that spotlight on him anymore.

Yes the canadiens have sold out all 41 home games this season.

nietche · Veteran Member

Not sure what you'd get for Theo straight up ... other than a bag of pucks.

Better to send him to Hamilton ... either some other team will grab him (giving Gainey room to land a new #1), OR if Theo is a professional, he'll win a few games for the 'Dogs and restore his confidence.

mdmrules · Member

mperra (Admin) wrote:

If we learned anything from the Patrick Roy debacle, with the media being what it is, is branding today's Montreal team around one player, is asking for trouble. For those who have watched a game at the Bell Centre, just look at what lengths the Canadiens go to make Theodore the feature player on the ice before the start of the game. When the starting players are announced, the last player announced is Jose Theodore. And there's always a spotlight on him that seems to last forever. I am somewhat disgusted reading his post-game interview following the 6-4 loss to Sid the kid and Co how Theodore went out of his way to say ... they had lots of breakaways and odd-man rushes. Like, why make excuses??? I am concerned about the chemistry on this club. Another incident was on the recent west-coast swing in Edmonton. Game tied late in the third period and Michael Ryder shoots the puck in the stands and gets a delay of game penalty, and a few feet away, Mike Ribeiro lifts his stick in disgust with Ryder. talk about playing for their own.

I think its crazy that we make Theo the absolute center of the Habs universe sometimes. We are really good at putting guys on a pedistle and then chasing them out of town only to watch them succeed elsewhere. So to all those "TRADE THEO" people... Be careful what you wish for.

I also hear alot of people talking about the lack of chemistry with the club right now but I think that we have to remember that they are a pretty young team and this is basically a very different team compared to what we saw in the 03-04 season. I am happy that guys called up from the farm can score goals like we saw tonight. I mean imagine what kind of team we could have in 2-3 years when these guys get some games under thier belt. (Any did anyone else kinda enjoy seeing Ryder embarass Brodeur with that bullet upstairs? I sure as hell did.) It seems so short sighted to rip on such a young inexperienced squad like I see so many people do.

Trapper John · Member

Johab wrote:

Kovalev had gone through a knee surgery already ( same one ) and they thought he didnt require it again. During the off-year kovalev was taking physio classes that the doctors thought would heal the problem. It wasnt working and so surgery was the last option...its not like he wasnt trying to fix the problem...

Thanks, Johab, for the clarification. It is pretty tough to get accurate hockey info in this part of the world, which is why I appreciate this site so much!

Trapper John · Member

mdmrules wrote:

mperra (Admin) wrote: If we learned anything from the Patrick Roy debacle, with the media being what it is, is branding today's Montreal team around one player, is asking for trouble. For those who have watched a game at the Bell Centre, just look at what lengths the Canadiens go to make Theodore the feature player on the ice before the start of the game. When the starting players are announced, the last player announced is Jose Theodore. And there's always a spotlight on him that seems to last forever. I am somewhat disgusted reading his post-game interview following the 6-4 loss to Sid the kid and Co how Theodore went out of his way to say ... they had lots of breakaways and odd-man rushes. Like, why make excuses??? I am concerned about the chemistry on this club. Another incident was on the recent west-coast swing in Edmonton. Game tied late in the third period and Michael Ryder shoots the puck in the stands and gets a delay of game penalty, and a few feet away, Mike Ribeiro lifts his stick in disgust with Ryder. talk about playing for their own. I think its crazy that we make Theo the absolute center of the Habs universe sometimes. We are really good at putting guys on a pedistle and then chasing them out of town only to watch them succeed elsewhere. So to all those "TRADE THEO" people... Be careful what you wish for. I also hear alot of people talking about the lack of chemistry with the club right now but I think that we have to remember that they are a pretty young team and this is basically a very different team compared to what we saw in the 03-04 season. I am happy that guys called up from the farm can score goals like we saw tonight. I mean imagine what kind of team we could have in 2-3 years when these guys get some games under thier belt. (Any did anyone else kinda enjoy seeing Ryder embarass Brodeur with that bullet upstairs? I sure as hell did.) It seems so short sighted to rip on such a young inexperienced squad like I see so many people do.

MDM, I think you've pretty well nailed it. I said in a previous post that there seemed to be low risk in bringing up some of the "kids" to build their confidence, give them exposure, and to set some of the older guys to thinking.

It's human nature to want to be on the winning side of things. After a year without hockey, when the first puck was dropped I was of a mind to appreciate the team and wait and see what developed over the season. When the first stanza brought such huge success, I began to think in terms of the playoffs, thinking "Gee, maybe we have a cup contender here at last."

I think I'll go back to my initial state of mind and look for signs of character in veterans and kids alike. That won't help me understand how some of the stats (like shots on goal last night) can be so pathetic... but then, noticing the little signs of improvement is what separates run-of-the-mill, "We're Number One" fans from those who try to appreciate the complexities of this game, which is what I assume we're all trying to do.

Cleghorn · Veteran Member

mperra (Admin) wrote:

If we learned anything from the Patrick Roy debacle, with the media being what it is, is branding today's Montreal team around one player, is asking for trouble. For those who have watched a game at the Bell Centre, just look at what lengths the Canadiens go to make Theodore the feature player on the ice before the start of the game. When the starting players are announced, the last player announced is Jose Theodore. And there's always a spotlight on him that seems to last forever. I am somewhat disgusted reading his post-game interview following the 6-4 loss to Sid the kid and Co how Theodore went out of his way to say ... they had lots of breakaways and odd-man rushes. Like, why make excuses??? I am concerned about the chemistry on this club. Another incident was on the recent west-coast swing in Edmonton. Game tied late in the third period and Michael Ryder shoots the puck in the stands and gets a delay of game penalty, and a few feet away, Mike Ribeiro lifts his stick in disgust with Ryder. talk about playing for their own.

Reading about the Three Amigos Dagenais, Ribeiro and Theodore reminds me of 3 amigos past - Chelios, Corson and Kordic. The difference? The old 3 brought a game to the rink!

There was a divisive split between the old 3 and teammates such as Carbonneau, Green etc. (rememeber the two captains fiasco?) Eventually those 3 had to be traded and once separated Chelios blossomed into a superstar, I have never bemoaned that move even though I loved Chelly, I preferred Carbo and only the trading of Carbo after this killed the Habs.

I met Chelios one night when he was out with Roy, Svoboda and Ludwig - a nicer guy you couldn't cross paths with - I met him again one week later when he was with Corson and Kordic and you couldn't find 3 louder more boorish guys - two grew up, one died - such a waste.

My point - get rid of all 3, if one blossoms so be it, that's the risk. Chipchura (reminds me of Muller) is on his way - that kid's a gentleman!!

The boards going to hate this but I'd trade Theodore and Dagenais (or Ribeiro) for Bertuzzi and Alex Auld. Todd had a moment of ignorance on the ice - many fine men have. It's alot different than being an a-hole 24/7 like I fear a handful of current Habs are.