Hey Barry33...

Ando · Guru

Hey Barry33...

barry33 · Guru

And-O- I agree with many of your points. Desperate times call for desperate measures and bringing in a new coach may be what is needed (and that ha snothing to do with Claude's abilities as a coach). Claude is a quality coach. Whne you get guys like Pat Quinn and Mike Keenan publicly saying that CJ is a good coach that says something. But sometimes a different approach is needed and that may be the case here.

As far as calling out his goalie I can tell you (as I talked with CJ last week) that this has been done but in private. CJ will NOT call his players out in public. He spent a yesterday defending both Theo and Bonk to reporters. That does not mean that in private he has not told these guys what he expects of them. The bottom line is that with or without Julien at the helm, there are gusy who need to spe up. Yes John M, Koivu is first on the list. If he is teh leader that you say he is he needs to rally that team and lead. Zednick is close behind.Begin, where have you been? Bonk has teh ability but needs a heart transplant. It goes on and on and on. When you have guys down and out you need guys to step up to the plate. That is not happening. I do know as well that there was aplayers only meeting after the Buffalo loss and the players are taking full responsibility which is where it needs to start.

Julien is giving the guys time off after tonite. I say lets try to steal 2 points tonite. get guys rested. If you read the article on Go habs .com today you will see that CJ is addressing all your concerns (PK and PP etc). He specifically mentions teh 5 on 3 the other night and plans to work on those things this week. But to give him credit he also realizes he has a very beat up and tired hockey club right now.

plouf · Guru

And-o it's not that I don't agree with you about shaking things up being helpful, even if it means getting rid of or benching good people (including the coach) - look at Boston and San Jose's first games after the trade.

I just think it's premature is all. I think this losing streak has more to do with injuries, etc...than with the coach. I also don't think it's a long enough losing streak, especially given the situation with all these players out. I actually think getting rid of CJ right now would send the wrong message. He has to be judged on the fact that he's achieved a 14-7-5 (?) record in tough circumstances (worst of all being the mediocre play of Theo). Whether they are one-goal games or not is meaningless to me. Pulling out one-goal wins is actually a good sign. Shows he had the team playing with heart when it counted.

Again, (and this is especially true with a team in the rebuilding stage - like it or not we are still in that stage, even if it's nearly time to demand that we move up to the next level)...you have to stick with guys long enough to be sure. Again, the example of Calgary comes to mind.

JohnM · Guru

Yes John M, Koivu is first on the list. If he is teh leader that you say he is he needs to rally that team and lead.

Barry, he isn't playing... not sure I get your point.

The teams slide started before Kovy was hurt, we are 2-8 in our last 10 games. CJ stopped using a successful strategy which was letting the kids play and play a good team game as soon as Zed came back (not sure why). He basically overplayed the #1 line and overplayed Markov and Rivet. It's not all his fault that we are on a bad skid but some of it falls on him. The other players aren't stepping it up. He is the one who needs to come up with a better game plan. Each player by himself can only do so much, whether it is Sak, Kovy or Markov. If they don't play as a team, they lose. I've said this before, the only one who can steal a game here and there is Theo and that's not happening.

As an example, let's look at TO when they lost Sundin at the start of the season. Everyone said they were finished but Quinn was able to put a plan together and they were able to stay afloat without their main man. Belfour also stole some games for them.

-- Edited by JohnM at 17:57, 2005-12-03

Muller93 · Guru

Just cannot figure out why the rookies( Plek, Perez, higgins) all seem to have lost all skill. They all seemed to be playing with such promise and now really look very bad( Plek is the bset of them IMO). What happened?

JohnM · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Just cannot figure out why the rookies( Plek, Perez, higgins) all seem to have lost all skill. They all seemed to be playing with such promise and now really look very bad( Plek is the bset of them IMO). What happened?

CJ stopped playing them.... I know they don't want to burn them out and make sure they succeed when they play but give em a chance. They deserve more of a chance than some others.

-- Edited by JohnM at 20:45, 2005-12-03

plouf · Guru

I'm all for more of the kids too. Wonder what would happen if we rolled four lines for 5-on-5 play. I think we were closer to a four-line team when we were winning. Why the change I wonder?

NorthwindNS · Veteran Member

I think CJ is saving the kids... I don't know why, but he is.. just in case we really need them.

Zulrath · Senior Member

This is the first game I've been able to watch in a little while and I noticed they got rid of the "Thank You Fans" on the ice. How long has this been gone?

davidb · Guru

Its been gone for a few games now

Zulrath · Senior Member

Thanks, I didn't mean to post in this thread by the way. But too late to fix that now.

barry33 · Guru

JohnM wrote:

Yes John M, Koivu is first on the list. If he is teh leader that you say he is he needs to rally that team and lead. Barry, he isn't playing... not sure I get your point. The teams slide started before Kovy was hurt, we are 2-8 in our last 10 games. CJ stopped using a successful strategy which was letting the kids play and play a good team game as soon as Zed came back (not sure why). He basically overplayed the #1 line and overplayed Markov and Rivet. It's not all his fault that we are on a bad skid but some of it falls on him. The other players aren't stepping it up. He is the one who needs to come up with a better game plan. Each player by himself can only do so much, whether it is Sak, Kovy or Markov. If they don't play as a team, they lose. I've said this before, the only one who can steal a game here and there is Theo and that's not happening. As an example, let's look at TO when they lost Sundin at the start of the season. Everyone said they were finished but Quinn was able to put a plan together and they were able to stay afloat without their main man. Belfour also stole some games for them.-- Edited by JohnM at 17:57, 2005-12-03

John- as much as this pains me to say this, the Leafs have a ton more talent on the ice then we do. More depth, more consistent goaltending, and a defence that is way more solid then what we have. That team should be playing much better than they are. Certainly I agree with some of your points regarding Quinn's adjustments when Sundin went down. However I respectfully submit that the loss of Sundin hurst a deep team like Toronto much less then a talent thin team like Montreal. One thing that has become painfully evident to me (regardless of who we have coaching) with these injuries. We are way more thin on talentg then I thought we were.

JohnM · Guru

barry33 wrote:

John- as much as this pains me to say this, the Leafs have a ton more talent on the ice then we do. More depth, more consistent goaltending, and a defence that is way more solid then what we have. That team should be playing much better than they are. Certainly I agree with some of your points regarding Quinn's adjustments when Sundin went down. However I respectfully submit that the loss of Sundin hurst a deep team like Toronto much less then a talent thin team like Montreal. One thing that has become painfully evident to me (regardless of who we have coaching) with these injuries. We are way more thin on talentg then I thought we were.

I have to disagree about the Leafs being a better team than the Habs, i.e. talent level. We could go player by player but on paper the Habs are the better team or should have been. Some of the key players on the Habs aren't playing how they were "supposed" to play. Two simple examples are Theodore over Belfour and Souray over McCabe. If the roles were reversed and the Habs had Theo and Souray on top of their games, I can guarantee this slide would not have taken place. Unfortunately, the players who are supposed to be the go to guys aren't. Let's hope this turns around.