How good is Koivu???

Ando · Guru

How good is Koivu???

JohnM · Guru

I think that is a pretty dumb question. I think the question should be how good are the Habs? With Sundin out TO did pretty well because the likes of McCabe, Lindros, Allison, O'Neil, etc... stepped their games up. One player cannot make a team unless he is a goaltender on a hot streak. You should know that andy.

NOHF · Member

I agree John, the Habs need to step it up. Kovalev is a big part of this team but the team needs to step up... no 2 ways about it. I find we have many players who are hot and cold. Play a good game then take 2 games off.

Koivu will show us again that he is a good leader but we need more consistency from Jose Theopendoor for this team to be consistent. We had 4 goals against the Leafs... enough to win, but not when you let in 5. So even if the Habs score 6 goals next game, it's to no avail if he lets in 7. Danis got a shutout, so what does CJ do, makes him ride the pine!!!11 Makes no sense, but then the Habs did the same with Garon and others. It's like they don't want to piss off their starting goalie. SCR#W HIM. If Danis has another shutout or a very strong game, reward him by giving him more starts, and maybe, just maybe this will give Theo the nudge he needs.

Nil d · Guru

NOHF wrote:

.... Jose Theopendoor ................

Good one, NOHF!

He was certainly that several times on Saturday, although I'd not blame him 100% for the loss. It was a team effort (or lack thereof), and things will only get more crucial with Kovalev gone.

davidb · Guru

This is equivalent to Bos being without Thronton, They did not fare well either.

barry33 · Guru

NOHF wrote:

I agree John, the Habs need to step it up. Kovalev is a big part of this team but the team needs to step up... no 2 ways about it. I find we have many players who are hot and cold. Play a good game then take 2 games off. Koivu will show us again that he is a good leader but we need more consistency from Jose Theopendoor for this team to be consistent. We had 4 goals against the Leafs... enough to win, but not when you let in 5. So even if the Habs score 6 goals next game, it's to no avail if he lets in 7. Danis got a shutout, so what does CJ do, makes him ride the pine!!!11 Makes no sense, but then the Habs did the same with Garon and others. It's like they don't want to piss off their starting goalie. SCR#W HIM. If Danis has another shutout or a very strong game, reward him by giving him more starts, and maybe, just maybe this will give Theo the nudge he needs.

As much as I would like to see Dani play more or whomever (Huet the other night) the bottom line is that like it o rnot, our hopes rest with Theo. Not Danis, or Huet, or MIchaud or Red Green if he signs a contract. Theo. Theo needs to establish himself as a number one, go to goalie mor ethen we need a win from Danis right now. And the only way for Theo to do this is to play through this inconsistency he has been having lately. Trust me I am not a Theo fan by any means. But barring a blockbuster trade, we need to get the 5.5 million dollar man consistent or we are done. Simple as that.

Ando · Guru

JohnM wrote:

I think that is a pretty dumb question.

...given what I've been told about how Saku anchors the top line, I think the question stands as a good and fair one!!!

If Koivu is half the Captain/leader you (and others) have claimed, than the top line (or the team chemistry) should not suffer too much at all...regardless of who skates with Koivu! Afterall...doesn't Ryder have more goals than Kovy does??? Why not plunk him down with Saku??? Saku's production should not drop off at all with that move should it??? Or maybe Perezhogin? Or Higgins?

I hope Saku excels...I do believe however that Kovy's presence made that line tick ten times more than any other Hab is capable of. And we will very soon discover if that was the case!

...CJ will have his hands full juggling lines though, regardless of who is chosen to pinch-hit for Kovy!!!

AWOL · Veteran Member

Say it again... heart and soul of the team.

Muller93 · Guru

Ando wrote:

JohnM wrote: I think that is a pretty dumb question. ...given what I've been told about how Saku anchors the top line, I think the question stands as a good and fair one!!! If Koivu is half the Captain/leader you (and others) have claimed, than the top line (or the team chemistry) should not suffer too much at all...regardless of who skates with Koivu! Afterall...doesn't Ryder have more goals than Kovy does??? Why not plunk him down with Saku??? Saku's production should not drop off at all with that move should it??? Or maybe Perezhogin? Or Higgins? I hope Saku excels...I do believe however that Kovy's presence made that line tick ten times more than any other Hab is capable of. And we will very soon discover if that was the case! ...CJ will have his hands full juggling lines though, regardless of who is chosen to pinch-hit for Kovy!!!

And-o. I think you are in some ways right. And I am confident Koivu will continue to excel. A point per game average likely. But what you don't get, for some bizzare reason, is that this is a team game.

I have been screaming on this board that with Ribero as our second line guy we are doomed. Now more than ever because now the opposition will simply focus on shutting down our first line. With Ryder off the second line...there is NOTHING LEFT! So actually look for Higgins and Perez to step it up a notch. And honestly And-o expect some decrease in Koivu's point production simply because he is all we have now and other teams know it. For koivu, it will be a constant 2 man on him situation. It's a team game And-o.

JohnM · Guru

Ando wrote:

JohnM wrote: I think that is a pretty dumb question. ...given what I've been told about how Saku anchors the top line, I think the question stands as a good and fair one!!! If Koivu is half the Captain/leader you (and others) have claimed, than the top line (or the team chemistry) should not suffer too much at all...regardless of who skates with Koivu! Afterall...doesn't Ryder have more goals than Kovy does??? Why not plunk him down with Saku??? Saku's production should not drop off at all with that move should it??? Or maybe Perezhogin? Or Higgins? I hope Saku excels...I do believe however that Kovy's presence made that line tick ten times more than any other Hab is capable of. And we will very soon discover if that was the case! ...CJ will have his hands full juggling lines though, regardless of who is chosen to pinch-hit for Kovy!!!

Well And-o, Sak is close to a point per game player with or without Kovalev. Check his stats history. He will elevate his line, not too worried about that. My worry is the other lines, will they be able to chip in as well as the D and Theo.

Nil d · Guru

Ando wrote:

JohnM wrote: I think that is a pretty dumb question. ...given what I've been told about how Saku anchors the top line, I think the question stands as a good and fair one!!! If Koivu is half the Captain/leader you (and others) have claimed, than the top line (or the team chemistry) should not suffer too much at all...regardless of who skates with Koivu! Afterall...doesn't Ryder have more goals than Kovy does??? Why not plunk him down with Saku??? Saku's production should not drop off at all with that move should it??? Or maybe Perezhogin? Or Higgins? I hope Saku excels...I do believe however that Kovy's presence made that line tick ten times more than any other Hab is capable of. And we will very soon discover if that was the case! ...CJ will have his hands full juggling lines though, regardless of who is chosen to pinch-hit for Kovy!!!

And-o, your anti-Saku bias comes out again by your "will he step up in Kovalev's absence" question. You say, in effect, that he will have failed if his production doesn't increase while his star winger is out. How unfair is that?! Saku will end up by necessity with a winger of lesser talent, so how can the stats improve? If they don't, it's not Saku's fault; he simply has less to work with.

Kovalev's absence is a test of how deep the Habs' talent pool is, and that's about it. To expect Saku to do more with less is grossly unfair! Even at that, I hope he proves you - and me - wrong.

Muller93 · Guru

Nil'd. You stated exactly what I was tryng to say, but with more clarity. You are a lyrical wizard! How can you expect someone's point production to stay the course with less??

And-o's question is ludicrous! Its a tactic to set him up for failure. Like I said, this is a team game and in fact the question is rather... " how good is this team"

-- Edited by Muller93 at 19:51, 2005-11-14

Nil d · Guru

Muller93 wrote:

Nil'd. You stated exactly what I was tryng to say, but with more clarity. You are a lyrical wizard! How can you expect someone's point production to stay the course with less?? And-o's question is ludicrous! Its a tactic to set him up for failure. Like I said, this is a team game and in fact the question is rather... " how good is this team"-- Edited by Muller93 at 19:51, 2005-11-14

Sheesh........... I was just about to put up a post disagreeing with you about Mike Ribeiro, but after all the comments above, I think I'll save it for another day! You're making me blush.................

-- Edited by Nil d at 20:27, 2005-11-14

AB Habman · Guru

If Ryder substitutes for Kovy, don't expect a drop in production from the first line but the second. Ryder, in my mind is just as effective in drawing traffic to him as was Kovy. Also Ryder can finish just as well if not better. Also very strong on the puck!

The Kovy injury brings up the point I was making before, that the Habs are playing above their heads and injuries will be the result. Look for the Habs to start playing 500 hockey by mid season unless Gainey brings in the needs that and-o reffered to in an earlier post.

plouf · Guru

I'm sure Koivu will find it very tough without Kovalev. What centre wouldn't?

I'm not sure what this really proves about Koivu. Kovalev benefits from Koivu's play as well.

The big question is whether or not this causes Zednik to wake up and elevate his game finally.

Johab · Guru

WHAT INCONSISTANCY PEOPLE?!?!?! HONESTLY!!! EVERY goalie will let in a few bad ones. BUT HECK WE ARE WINNING!!! Theo has 10 wins already and hes only played 16 games!!! Not to mention 3 OT Losses. So out of 16 games theo has got a point for us in 13 of them. Is that not enough to ask of your starting goalie? Do you need 16 wins out of 16 games for him to be a true #1? For what this team has on defense, Theo is doing amazingly well, and it seems like everywhere else but here he is getting his praise!!! I honestly dont get some of you sometimes...

ray · Senior Member

This means when we play the leafs again in a couple weeks no Kovalev, great the leafs keep beating us with every bounce.

beakermania · Senior Member

He was great tonight, and not just in OT.

hockeyman · Senior Member

beakermania wrote:

He was great tonight, and not just in OT.

That he was!!!

Desi · Senior Member

With Kovalev out for a while, we should certainly get to see how good Captain K really is. He came through vs. Florida but that's only one game. There's no doubt that Koivu benefits from playing with Kovy, not just in having a great winger to work with but also because Kovy draws so much of the opposition's attention away from his linemates. Kovalev is feared for good reason. I expect that Koivu will continue to provide the kind of leadership he showed last night, but the corollary question is: what kind of support will Koivu get? Zeds needs to put his thinking cap on and concentrate on what he's doing for 60 minutes. Our D needs to move the puck out of the zone quicker and with more accuracy. And the other lines need to pressure the puck in the opposition's zone. If those things happen, Koivu will be able to do what he does best, which is annoy the opposition to death, and the Habs will be in every game they play (except the ones against Ottawa). Of course, nobody's perfect, and I don't surely expect the Habs to win every night. But they are spoiling us a little right now with all these wins, aren't they?